emusonacid!

I know this might sound like a stupid question to you guys but i would like to know how you go about layering your drums using an emu 5000 sampler.

I am still developing a technic. So far what I do is make a couple of tracks. I have on track that has the main break. Then lets say I want to add ghost strokes or something from another break. I put those on another track. Now, if I have a kick or snare that I want to layer with the original break, I will put those kicks and snares into the preset with the break, and layer then with the main breaks kicks and snares. So if kick one is on c1, then I will put kick 2 on c1 as well, and perhaps add a CC that allows me to remove it if needed.

If you do this, you will have to FIR both samples. If you don't want to eq anything out of the original kick, you will want to FIR that with an all pass filter at a point value of 99 at the highest frequency setting. Then you FIR the other kick the same, or eq sounds you want out of it using the FIR. In my newer track, I actually FIR'd one of the kicks at like 140 and layered it over the top of the main breaks kick. If you keep the two kicks on different tracks, the hits seem sloppy and often times hit at different times. But if you keep them in the same preset on the same origin, they seem to hit at the same time more consistantly.

Any other questions... Just ask.

snh

thanks for the reply and i like your track that you done i wish i was on that level but i seem a ways off, any way i was more talking about layering drum hits to create for example a kick out of diffrent kick sample or any other drum hits , what advice do you have on doing this

I thought I covered that in the post. Perhaps I wasn't very clear. I was in a rush this morning. When I get to the explaination bit, I will CAPS important information for quick reference. This is going to be one of my famous books.. I mean replies, not too much unlike my break cutting tutorial.

Glad you liked the choon. When you heard that choon, you heard what you where looking for. Those main kicks and snares where infact several layers to make a different sounding kick and snare. Those main kicks where 1 part Chocolate Buttermilk and 1 part Billie Jean. The main snares where 1 part Chocolate Buttermilk, 1 part Billie Jean, and 1 part Paul Simon. So you hear hearing two different kicks at the same time and three different snares at the same time. Appearantly, if you couldn't tell that this is what was going on, then I did a good job. I also had gone so far as to layer the Chocolate Buttermilk break ontop of it's self.

As far as I am concerned, the emu is perfect for beat layering because of the FIR filter. The instruction gives an example of use for this filter as a way it boost a certian band width by layering a copy of the same sample on top of it's self. I use this application and twist it so that it becomes a sort of sound shaping tool. I physically will build kicks and snares and use pieces of several different kicks or snares to make each part of the new kick or snare. I do this by isolating the frequencies I want using the FIR.

In this case, the FIR is the most useful tool you can use. I personally think the FIR is underused and underated. The filter is a dream come true really.

Basically, what you want to do is take a few samples of several different kicks and layer them in such a way that they make a completely new sounding kick. So I am going to go step by step on what I do to create a new kick with layers and while I am at it, with snares as well. This will just be an idea for you, it's more of a feeling when you do this. Sometimes things go together easy, other times you have to keep adding things untill you get what you want. Here we go.

KICKS: You start out with your main break. Lets pretend that the kick has good bottom end but lacks clarity in the upper areas around the body and attack of the sound. I am thinking a kick like the Funky Drummer break's kicks for example. Great bottom end, you want that, but nothing to really push it through your subs. So you go looking for another kick that has the missing piece. You find a kick that has a good attack with or with out good low end. That low end doesn't matter because we already have that with the first kick but we need the upper range stuff, the attack to make the kick have more presence. You of course have to cut both samples to the very most beginning of their sound. A few samples off can make the world of difference. You will know if they are off. A quick way to test this is to pitch the sample down 3 or so octaves. If you hear nothing for bit after hitting the key, then you need to do some more cutting. This can be as small as 10 samples. An incredible small amount of time, not enough for you to hear it normally, but some how, if applyed to another kick that is cut closer, you will hear it, but not really know it. You just feel that something is wrong... dirty. Sloppy.

Now, you have both samples cut down proper. This part I must stress. YOU MUST DO THIS FOR TIGHT DRUMS. You have to put both kicks in the same preset and of course layer them together on the same origin routine. Put both on C1 for example. Hit that kick. You will more then likely hear something that sounds funny. At this point, you might be hearing several different issues. The primary issue is phase shifting or cancellation. It often sounds like distortion or some kind of flange on the kick. Or you lose the bottom end and there is just a pop. It just wont sound right.

If I was behind the controls, these are the settings I would apply. Since the low end kick with weak attack is that, more low end then high end, I might do one of two things. I may FIR the high end off. A setting of maybe 100 to 200 hz would be perfect for the LOW PASS setting and a POINT VALUE of 99 to clear off the top of the kick and keep just the low end. Or if I think the high end will not cause any issues, then I will do an ALL PASS at a POINT VALUE of 99 with a centre frequency of 22125hz, the top of the scale in other words. Even if you have no intention of eqing anything out of the kick, you must do the ALL PASS inorder insure that your phase is going the same direction that the other kick will be going.

The next step would include removing any low end form the second kick. I don't need it. I already have a kick that is good and suby, I just need the attack. Or lets say the second kick doesn't have much sub to it, I will still remove the lowend to try and preserve head room and try to prevent any phase cancellation that might be unavoidable. I would probably use a setting in the FIR something like this; HIGH PASS setting at 150hz or highter at a POINT VALUE of 99. NOTE: YOU MUST KEEP THE POINT VALUES THE SAME. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL CAUSE THE SAMPLES NOT TO ALLIGN CORRECTLY AND MAY RESULT IN PHASE SHIFTING OR CANCELLATION.

Then I would try the kick out. Then in the preset menu where you set the origin of each note and so on, I would actually mix the two kicks. If I needed the second to kick to be louder, I will adjust that samples volume and so on.

Now, when you play the kick, they should sound pretty consistant. If you tried layering the two kicks on different mid tracks, timing issues and inconsistances will become appearant in short time.

SNARES: This can be very fun. You start out the same way you would do with the kicks. Here you can get creative. Lets say you have a snare that is huge, like a Freestyle type snare from an 80's choon and lets say you have a snare that is small and sharp like a snare from Think. Lets say the attack on the 80's snare is weak, it also has too much meat on it, muddies up your ghosts, but the tail on the sharp small snare isn't long enough for you. lets say you want the attack of the small snare and the tail of the 80's snare. So I would FIR the small snare using all pass at 99 with a centre freq at the top of the scale and then I would FIR the 80's snare using HIGH PASS at 200 to 400 hz (depending on how sharp I want the snare to sound.) at a POINT VALUE of 99. Lets say after this, I find that the 80's snare overpowers the small snare (of course you must set both these voices in the same preset, same as the kicks, you get better timing), I would then take the 80's snare and use and ADSR to give the snare slower attack so that the attack of the small snare would dominate over the 80's snare and then it would shift over to the tail of the 80's snare. Of course the settings would have to be quick enough for the two sounds to melt in with each other. An attack of 2 to 10 in the first ADSR AMP window would be great for the 80's snare. It's all dependant on how the length of the small snare works out. Once again, you will know it when you got it right. Then you can adjust levels and whatever once you are back in the preset edit screen.

The FIR is one of the best tools for this job. It's almost spooky how geared this sampler is for drum and bass. it's almost as if they where making it with the junglists in mind.

Oh, and here is another bit of information to warn you about. When you eq something, you are actually changing the shape of the wave form. If you cut a hit and it has no missed zero crossing, in other words, there is not pop at the start and no pop at the end, you may wind up with missed zero crossings after using the FIR. It will change the shape of the wave form as interfering and constructive harmonics are being removed. You may have to cut a few samples off hear and there to clean it up again.

The last thing... lets say you want part of a kick from a break that has a strange sound in it. Say the ride from the Amen break, and you want it in a break with no ride. Use the FIR to filter out the ride. Low pass that bad boy at like 500 hz or so using a point value of 99, then layer a clean cymbal from the other break on top of the kick to creat the illusion of cohesion.

If this doesn't get you where your going, then just send me a message and I will prepare you an audio tutorial.

Hope this helps and I hope it makes sense to you.

snh

man nuff respect to youy for your explanation and i understand everything you said in your tutorial, thats why i always like asking you questions because you give a very indepth explanation i would still appreciate the audio tutorial and yeah i think you should consider writting a book. thanks for your reply

Okay. I will have to put something together. I have someone else who needs a few audio examples as well. I have been so busy with work. It will have to wait for this weekend or something like that. Plus, Oblivion is coming out today...

snh

hey sampleandhold,

Given what you were talking about as far as drums on the same preset having the best timing, is it most beneficial to put all of your drums in the same preset?

I still am exploring the capability of groups, but doing this can I assign different elements of my drums to different groups and give each group a different submix out, so I can still route my kicks/snares/perc/etc to their own outputs, even though they are within the same preset?

And secondly, if this is the case, can I merge the contents of a bank/preset into an existing preset? I have all my chopped breaks stored as separate banks, keymapped already, so it would be great if I could just merge a break into a master 'drums' preset preserving the sample assignments and keymapping.

Right now I have all these drum elements on separate presets and I tend to spend way too much time getting my timing right. I definitely suffer from sloppy drum syndrome, which is new to me since I started doing all my drums in my Ultra instead of software samplers.

I might be missunderstood here a bit. When I am refering to putting the two different snares into one preset, I am also refering to putting both snares on the same note. If you don't put them in the same preset, they of course will not play together when you hit the same note. So I put my kicks and snares that I want played together in the same preset and on the same note. So when I hit C1 on the keyboard the sampler will play both snares at once. If you have the two snares on seperate tracks, then you will have inconsistant hits and flanging.

The only time I would put two breaks in the same preset is if I wanted both breaks playing ontop of each other with the intention of having all the ghost strokes, snares, and kicks all play at the same time. The only problem with this is if you wanted to switch up the hits from one break to another. But there would be ways around.

See if you play two breaks that are cut up on two different tracks they hit inconsistantly. If you put them in the same preset and make each hit share a key, you will have a tightier sound.

The next question is about assigning different subs in the same preset. You can do that. It's a bit hidden, and I can't quite think of where it is, it's second nature for me to find it. Hold on a sec... Yeah... It must be in the tuning section of the voice edit. I think it's on page three. If not there, then you go into the amp/filter bit. Basically you want to have your snare have reverb and perhaps your kick have a delay. You can set that up provided that you have effect group A with reverb and effect group B with delay. You would set each voice's output two the proper effect group.

So basically, you can set one break to group 1 and one break to group 2 and adjust from there, apply reverb to break 1 and delay to break 2.

The next question. I have to address something here. A Bank is a group of presets. A preset is a group of voices. You can merge several presets into a bank and you can merge banks together. The emu would adjust the presets in order if I remember correctly. The original banks presets would be on top and then the second bank. I think I have had some strange things happen here though with presets disappear.

As for merging presets, might be possible. Never done it before. But, if you do this with the need to preserve your mapping, you might discover that the emu may shuffle them down the key. To merge, I usually just copy the voices over and over again and set each voice to the specific sample number I want to be placed there. You can access all the samples in a bank from 1 preset regardless of how many presets you have. I might have to look into this tonight.

Hope this helps and if I wasn't clear don't be afraid to ask me what the hell I was talking about.

snh

actually, you answered my questions perfectly. The answers I hoped you would say, too! Gives me some new things to try out tomorrow. Thank you very much for your help

It's good.

snh

snh,

i just want to thank you for that info on the FIR filter...I had not used it before today and after reading your guide...I must say its incredible!!! I was using the lowpass/highpass in voice presets before and it pales in comparision. extreme thanks for this!

Cool man. I did a spectual analaysis on that filter and it is almost brick wall cut off at a point value of 99. Instead of a roll off of an octave or two, it rolls off in less then an octave.

Also, the parametric eq in the emu is garbage for any real eqing. At a band width of 1 hz, it rolls off over the course of an octave. The idea as far as I am concerned is that if you have a band width of 1hz then it should only effect that certain frequency. Maybe I expect too much.

So, I use the FIR for most eqing in the emu.

snh

Thx for those tips ShN but what do you call FIR filter? i actually layer drums on an e6400 os3.00 at the moment and i never see this FIR.

It's in sample edit mode, I believe.

May be it is not implemented is eos 3.00b, nothing named FIR in sample menu or in others menus.