emusonacid!

I have an Indigo. Nice machine. Do u ppl that have the Virus or SuperNova for that matter use the machine is multi single mode (1 sound per midi channel) or in multi mode (different sounds mapped out on the keyboard either split or layered on top of each other as u can do with a EMU?

When u guys do basses in your EMU's do u sample a single bass an mapp it to the entire board or do u have a different bass sound on a different voice in different octaves mapped across the keybord?

i have a Virus B - use it in Multi-Single Mode...

I think to the second part of your question - depends on what you're doing, I keep meaning to try a split keyboard bass line but always have the same sound filling the entire keyboard but I may use 2 or 3 actual different midi channels for different bass sounds....if ya get me.

Remember you can use your Virus to control your EMU as well - if you get which value the knobs are sending you can assign them in the cords page.

ezman wrote:i have a Virus B - use it in Multi-Single Mode...

I think to the second part of your question - depends on what you're doing, I keep meaning to try a split keyboard bass line but always have the same sound filling the entire keyboard but I may use 2 or 3 actual different midi channels for different bass sounds....if ya get me.

Ok so a different bass in a different preset each on their own midi channels? Do u layer your bases in the same preset on different voices?

Remember you can use your Virus to control your EMU as well - if you get which value the knobs are sending you can assign them in the cords page.

Yeah i map out the knobs on the Virus front panel to be used to control the EMU parameters. I wish it was possible in the EMU to select a Source in the Cords, hold down 'ENTER' then move the knob on the Virus to have it automatically assigned instead of scrolling the list of sources. My Kurzweil does that and its heaps faster.

drayon wrote:Ok so a different bass in a different preset each on their own midi channels? Do u layer your bases in the same preset on different voices?

Yep, I add and then adjust until I get a sound I like. Sometimes just a sub to or more midrangey bass sound...

drayon wrote:...automatically assigned instead of scrolling the list of sources. My Kurzweil does that and its heaps faster.

Hey that's neat

layer basses for more complex sounds but DO NOT EVER LAYER THE SAME FREQ! This is especially important in the lower frequencies.

Also, you may try resampling and then having different versions of the same composite bass sound. One through a low pass, another on a morphing EQ, etc.

Also, if transfering bass sounds from synth to sampler, I individualy sample each pitch that I'm planning on using to reduce artefacts - of course, I almost invaribly end up breaking this rule to get a high note to wobble more freq than a lower note (like planet dust bass).

anyweah, I'm rambling.

Madmax,

Why do you say "DO NOT EVER LAYER THE SAME FREQ"?

That's a very common technique when creating pads, to make a "beating" effect... Please explain why you don't think it's a good idea.

OK there are exceptions to every rule - fo sho.

You can get a fabalus sound by combining 2 808 kicks a half step apart (which undoubtedly share harmonic overtones - the whole "wobble" of the sound comes from phase cancellation and addition). This would be an example of breaking that particular rule deliberatly to get sastisfying results constructivly. If you look down to the three choices a couple of paragraphs down, in this case A) would be a perfectly acceptable choice.

Anyone familiar with the additive and subtractive effects of sound waves will recognize how to manipulate in order to get the results he (or possibly she) wants. However ... as n00bs will enevitably use this ... it is important to underscore the separation of frequency when dealing with basses in particular.

Let's say that you have 2 bass sounds (we'll keep it simple)
One runs from about 20 Hz to 90 Hz, the other from 60 Hz to 20 kHz. The second one is overlapping the first. This will lead to 60 Hz to 90 Hz being overly represented in the sonic spectrum. The two sound waves will add (remember your trig lads) at those frequencies and create a spike (or worse - they could be out of phase which could lead to a big hole in the mix, innit). Now this spike will ensure that you must A) lower the volume of the bassline in general (this is not acceptable as you then will not be able to hear the frequencies that didn't get boosted by the phase addition (can I say that?)), B) the rest of your freqeuencies will not be able to reach their potential amplitude as this spike is forcing you to reduce the overall volume of your track, or C) highpass that biziatch up to 90 Hz.

The "correct" answer is C. (OK fuck it, if you want your toons to be pussy hurt than there is no "correct" answer)

Think of trying to get a lid on a box that has a square in it. If the square has a lump on one side, you can't get the lid on - you have to reduce the overall size of the square, which means that you end up with more room in the box that you can't use. Dilli's tracks sound so huge (if utterly boring - that's another topic) because he is able to cram sound up to the top. Remember, frequencies add. If you have no more room in that portion of the harmonic spectrum, adding more there will make the mix sound quieter and muddier.

OK that was a rather long winded answer but this is one of the main reasons that tracks don't sound loud enough. It's not something that I've been able to master either. EQings a bitch and IMO the hardest part of producing.

Hope this helps ...

Maxwell

You forgot the other reason, which is panning! A lot of people don't bother to pan their instruments and end up losing a lot of space...

Think of that same box, but divided into three segments, left/right/middle. You can only get so much stuff into the middle... But if you fill up left and right first that's a whole lot more stuff that you can cram in :)

EQ + Panning = loud, spacious tracks... And aside from a bit of half-assed stuff I know how to do, my plan is to leave most of that part to a skilled mastering engineer.

By the way, if you want to improve your EQ skill, it can be learned... A friend of mine is studying to be an engineer right now and they're making him listen to white noise samples which they then EQ... he has to tell them what band and how many decibels of EQ were applied. It should be fairly trivial to self-test by creating a bunch of cases and then having someone rename all of the files (keeping track of what file is what in a seperate place)... I'm planning to do so shortly to improve my skills.

Yes panning is important - but not for basses, one of the original topics of this thread ...

If you pan anything under, say, 300 Hz or so (I don't have the exact number here) you will make it impossible to cut to acetate (and therefor press vinyl). If you want panning effects on your bass just be sure to pan only an upper layer.

Are you serious on this Max? Could you explain why when you cut to acetate, panning <300Hz is of no consequence?? (Rumble?) I can't quite figure this one out...Nads.

Incidentally, what is the theoretical dynamic range and frequency range of a vinyl recording??

According to what I've read, it's not steady panning that's an issue (a pan setting kept for the entire track), but panning the noise back and forth (as in using a ping-pong delay or something similar) that causes the problem; bass frequencies on the record take up a lot of space (physically) and when they go back and forth rapidly it can cause the needle to bounce out of the groove. It can also burn out the cutting stylus they use to make acetates with. And then there's the "why" question... the engineers I've talked to have told me that panning bass isn't really a useful effect anyway.

According to what I've read, it's not steady panning that's an issue (a pan setting kept for the entire track), but panning the noise back and forth (as in using a ping-pong delay or something similar) that causes the problem; bass frequencies on the record take up a lot of space (physically) and when they go back and forth rapidly it can cause the needle to bounce out of the groove. It can also burn out the cutting stylus they use to make acetates with. And then there's the "why" question... the engineers I've talked to have told me that panning bass isn't really a useful effect anyway.

spot on

nads wrote:Incidentally, what is the theoretical dynamic range and frequency range of a vinyl recording??

55-65dB