emusonacid! legacy

Anyone have much luck in working the basses out that these guys do? Tunes like Blindside, the Helicopter rmx, Psyke etc. The Filters sound like EMU to me, but i just cant work out the kind of modulations these guys are doing. To me the modulations are NOT like a regular cyclical LFO.

I think LFO modulating filter cutoff sounds too plain and repetitive. Listening to c4c sounds like they sample a note with a LFO modulating frequency for say a Virus, make several copy's of it (one for each different note in the bassline) then map each copy to a different voice. From here i think they modulate each note independently but then they set the start point of each sample at different phases of the LFO cycle and trigger the notes individually. So one note may trigger from 90 degrees so that the filter closes, the next note triggers from 270 degrees so that filter opens etc

Anyone analyzed this style enough to think of any ways to re-create it?

maybe i haven't ready your post right. but the first thing that comes to mind is: have you tried to use an lfo that isn't key sync. you should be able to get into the lfo edit section and turn the key sync off. what will happen is the lfo will modulate even if your not hitting the keyboard, so there could be times that when you hit the note, it will not start the same as the other notes you hit.

i hope that helps... maybe.

sampleandhold wrote:maybe i haven't ready your post right. but the first thing that comes to mind is: have you tried to use an lfo that isn't key sync. you should be able to get into the lfo edit section and turn the key sync off. what will happen is the lfo will modulate even if your not hitting the keyboard, so there could be times that when you hit the note, it will not start the same as the other notes you hit.

i hope that helps... maybe.

Hey there S&H, i too have thought about 'Free Run'. However, we don't have any control over the exact triggering phase of the LFO. It really is random. I think C4C stuff is more controlled, where the first bass note may be triggering at say 90 degrees and the next note say 270. Each different note may also have (since it may be a different voice) more or less Amount % in the cords.

eg Note 1 LFO+ -> FiltEnv -> 30%
Note 2 LFO+ -> FiltEnv -> 60%

Maybe you have other ideas on how the sound may be created?

I haven't listened to any C4C tracks for a while but maybe what you need to do is split up your keyboard into various octaves with the same sample... So for instance, let's say you have a sample called "MyBass" that has an origin C0, you could program one voice with origin at C0 that only stretches from C0 - B1 on the keyboard, with FiltEnv set to 30%... Then a second voice with the same "MyBass" sample, but this time set the origin to C1 and stretch the voice from C1 - B2 with FiltEnv at 60%... Keep going with the rest of the octaves, and you'll have free range to play whatever you need within reason. Most basslines I program don't take up more than one octave so that shouldn't be a major problem, I'd assume (maybe I'm not very innovative w/ my basslines, though)...

Does that make sense?

C4C draws their modulations with the mod wheel most of the time.

You could also try linking 2 LFOs to the filter freq. It sound much more natural than 1 LFO.

madmax wrote:C4C draws their modulations with the mod wheel most of the time.

You could also try linking 2 LFOs to the filter freq. It sound much more natural than 1 LFO.

in Logic..? then resample only little bit of the modulation and trigger from different locations? Perhaps they set up a filt env first for the attack of the bass then a delayed LFO kiks in modulating the cuttoff of a low pass.?

in Logic..? then resample only little bit of the modulation and trigger from different locations? Perhaps they set up a filt env first for the attack of the bass then a delayed LFO kiks in modulating the cuttoff of a low pass.?

Yeah man there's lots of things to do to twist em up. Usually, doing the mod wheel by hand is the most effective.

First off ... in order to have real control over the sound I might recomend starting with a synth and getting to know that reals well. Then, when you have made the baddest sound you can muster on the synth, resample that biatch (preferably through a tube or other analouge comp) into the emu. Once it's in the EMU treat each sound like a separate oscilator (Remember not to do this with the sub/bottom layer if you are runnning it out of a stereo channel - I dunno why you'd run it stereo in the first place but anyweah) meaning make 2 (usually that's enough) voices and detune them by about 4 - 10 cents each (one at -4 the other at +4, ya dig?). Then group them. Copy these groups exactly so that you have the same sound in each octave (or 2 if ya want). Now take the first group and put it on a low pass (of course you could use any filter) that's set to 120 Hz (and you could use any value really) then have an LFO+ mod the filtfreq by +100%. Now take the second group and set the low pass to 20KHz. Take the LFO+ and set it to mod filtfreq by -100% Now take the third group and set it to 1KHz and have LFO~ mod the filtfreq by +100%. This should give you different stages in the cycle.

Also, like I said before, you might want to try moding each filtfreq with 2 LFOs each so that the pattern is not as predictable.

In addition, don't forget to use all the tools available to you. Add a bit of pornomento (OK I know that's not it) or use the Aux Env to control the pitch (ie. have the note quickly rise into its pitch ... or quickly fall) also get a good Amp/Vel (they call it different things on different screens) Env going to shape the tone. Get different groups of the same sound on different filters/cutoffs/resonaces, some controled by hand, some with LFOs, some with ASDR envelopes. Layer your basses over subs. Use multiple layers (this requires a bit more skill to do more that a sub and upper bass). Use the gain function to digitally clip your sounds for a tearing high end. what else ... there are unlimited options ... don't forget to use your synth to start as you can effect pulse width and sync (including things like sync skew and formant width) which give you much more control over the sound.

Anyweah, I'm rambling ... hope this helps

I just realized that I forgot to emphasise something really important in getting complex bass sounds >>> Resampling!

Once you've squeezed the sound for however much it's worth, resample it! I would say preferably through a tube compressor but you could also resample it and then run it through a tube compression emulator - or anything that can give you a nice soft clip drive type sound (NOT digital distortion!!!!!). Warm that bitch up - it's the same with bass as it is with ass. OK then once you've got it nice and beefy, throw it back in the EMU and put it on a nice simple high or low pass (the opposite of what you were using is usually best) with slow modulations on the freq from the mod wheel. Enjoy!

*Sometime you end up liking the original more but hey, it's worth a shot!