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#1 2014-12-06 16:18:37

marduk
Member

e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

Well I've gone my way to get this b* to work but alas no cigar.
2 diff OLD(!) IDE drives (Seagate ST310212A 10.2 GB, Maxtor Fireball 3 40 GB) formatted on XP to FAT32 (or unformatted) w. 2 diff IDE cables (one master-slave-host) - nope.
2 diff SATA drives (Samsung HM121HI 120 GB, WD WD800JD 80 GB) formatted on XP to FAT32 (or unformatted) + Wintech SAK-65 and your usual pick of no-name IDE-SATA converters (just had them lying around) - also nope.
Nothing is showing up in Disk/Browse except the floppy.

So.. anyone with some deeper/expert knowledge about the inner workings of IDE inside the ultras? I have metered the IDE connector and mostly every pin have something going on (i.e. is not dead, I can list the V-s if it's any help..), the power connector is turned and w. correct voltages - 4.99 V & 12.3 V. The disks spin. I'm losing my hair.

And theres NOTHING about IDE troubleshooting in the Emu_E4_Technical.Documents-Combined.pdf (326 pages) so...

Thanks.

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#2 2014-12-06 20:35:29

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

i had great luck with my e4xt and a single ide drive.  i would check the jumpers that designate master, slave and cable select.  failing that, attempt only one drive and put it into cable select mode.

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#3 2014-12-06 21:34:54

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

OK, but of course I tried it one drive at a time. And of course it was jumpered a master - care to elaborate why do you recommend cable select? The manual says "The IDE drive needs to be configured as the Master device."
I thought my post was clear enough about the lengths gone w. this - surely I checked the jumpers before measuring voltages of every pin on a 40 pin connector icon_biggrin (I also tested continuity of both IDE cables - they work). Anyway, SATA is immune to jumpers..

Last edited by marduk (2014-12-06 21:36:58)

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#4 2014-12-07 00:28:47

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

the working ide drive that came out of my e4xt was in cable select mode.  but hey sounds like you got it covered.  oh wait, make sure you have the right polarity in place for ribbon cable and power cable.  ill let you suss it from here.

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#5 2014-12-07 08:07:30

philtipping
Administrator

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

I feel your angst mate icon_sad - sounds like you've tried all the options, but there's a famous quote by Sherlock about once you've eliminated the impossible...etc... so keep at it.
My only experience is with the 2.5" IDE adapter, but have converted 6 different Ultras with different ages and histories so all I can add is to double/triple check everything. I've had one instance of a non-compatible IDE disc, but this still showed up on the Drives screen - you just couldn't read or write to it, so if the Emu is not seeing the drive, it must be more fundamental.
Agree with your conclusion that if it's spinning up then power must be ok, so data connection is suspect, but there are several places where this could be reversed. The IDE cable to EM-U motherboard, the cable to the adapter... and the adapter to the IDE disk - if it's like mine - see photos here (scroll down to non-removable IDE discs section - think there's enough resolution to zoom in) - the socket is not keyed so you can fit it either way. Also there are more pins on the disc than there are on the adapter socket, so you could misalign the whole thing.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, so hope it helps. If not, can you post any close-up pics of the connections? Or are you located anywhere near someone who can offer a fresh set of eyes? I'm in Wales, UK.

Last edited by philtipping (2014-12-07 08:14:15)

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#6 2014-12-07 13:54:41

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

alien_brain wrote:

the working ide drive that came out of my e4xt was in cable select mode.  but hey sounds like you got it covered.  oh wait, make sure you have the right polarity in place for ribbon cable and power cable.  ill let you suss it from here.

If I had it covered I wouldn't be whining around here icon_smile The polarities are right indeed - the machine won't even boot (blank screen) when IDE polarity is wrong.

philtipping wrote:

I feel your angst mate icon_sad - sounds like you've tried all the options, but there's a famous quote by Sherlock about once you've eliminated the impossible...etc... so keep at it.
My only experience is with the 2.5" IDE adapter, but have converted 6 different Ultras with different ages and histories so all I can add is to double/triple check everything. I've had one instance of a non-compatible IDE disc, but this still showed up on the Drives screen - you just couldn't read or write to it, so if the Emu is not seeing the drive, it must be more fundamental.
Agree with your conclusion that if it's spinning up then power must be ok, so data connection is suspect, but there are several places where this could be reversed. The IDE cable to EM-U motherboard, the cable to the adapter... and the adapter to the IDE disk - if it's like mine - see photos here (scroll down to non-removable IDE discs section - think there's enough resolution to zoom in) - the socket is not keyed so you can fit it either way. Also there are more pins on the disc than there are on the adapter socket, so you could misalign the whole thing.

I had only 3.5" IDE drives - straight from mainboard to disk (also the spin-up amperage is adequate). There's more pins (44 - 4 extra for power) only on 2.5" drives so irrelevant in this case. Also as referenced here the Wintech should work by default with any SATA drive.

philtipping wrote:

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, so hope it helps. If not, can you post any close-up pics of the connections? Or are you located anywhere near someone who can offer a fresh set of eyes? I'm in Wales, UK.

Thanks, but I'm in Estonia so.. Anyway if you have a multimeter and care to check the voltage on the IDE pins (not that difficult actually) and then we could compare them maybe? But then again the voltages could be ok but logic messed up so this might be of no help at all...
Dang it I need an experienced IDE doctor! icon_biggrin

Last edited by marduk (2014-12-07 13:57:21)

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#7 2014-12-07 17:32:34

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

try a different drive.  i have several extra ide drives just laying around, ill ship you one for the cost of shipping.

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#8 2014-12-07 18:04:06

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

I tried 2 diff drives (see my first post). Anyway I'll get some more next week, thanks.

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#9 2014-12-08 06:24:43

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

i did see your first post.  offering a drive known to work under eos

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#10 2014-12-08 11:13:59

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

alien_brain wrote:

i did see your first post.  offering a drive known to work under eos

Or you could just give me the name of the drive and I can check the differencies, if any, with mine icon_smile
Thanks!

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#11 2014-12-08 16:34:31

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

hitachi travelstar 4200 rpm ata/ide

will there be anything else sir?

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#12 2014-12-09 19:32:30

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

at the moment on hold 'til I get more drives!
Or if anyone can chime in with advanced "IDE knowledge" then by all means do icon_smile

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#13 2014-12-11 15:30:45

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

got 2 more IDE drives (samsung sp0812n, deskstar ic35l040avvn07-0) alas, no cigar.
The IDE must be shot mad

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#14 2014-12-11 23:35:45

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

nah, you just need an ide expert icon_biggrin

good thing you still have scsi...  get a raizinmonster scsi to CF and host a 64gb cf card

Last edited by alien_brain (2014-12-11 23:38:01)

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#15 2014-12-16 01:16:27

override
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

Installation of an IDE hard drive should be straightforward; It shouldn't be as tough a time as you're having (making me think there is something wrong with your samplers IDE bus).. I have never, ever run into any compatibility issues with "smaller" format IDE drives (eg 160 GB and under); I have used at least 10 IDE/PATA hard drives in various ultras without compatibility issues. There are only two steps to installing the drive:

1. Ensure the IDE drive jumpers are set to MASTER; all other settings will not work
2. Ensure the IDE ribbon cable is connected to the motherboard properly (i.e., the striped edge of the ribbon cable should line up with Pin 1 of the ide header on the motherboard)

Failing this I would venture to suggest something is wrong with your sampler.. In that case, at least SCSI is faster than IDE on these babies icon_smile

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#16 2014-12-26 20:09:16

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

The same drives on a SCSI adapter (Yamaha V769970) are working so it really is one shot IDE bus.
Anyone have any ideas how to fix it? Most probably not your standard "replace caps" icon_smile

Last edited by marduk (2014-12-26 20:10:07)

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#17 2014-12-27 14:06:23

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

take a meter and follow the traces away from the ide buss and hope that its only a 1 or 2 layer PCB, find broken trace, jump, repeat

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#18 2014-12-27 14:07:28

alien_brain
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

or get a raizinmonster and call it a day

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#19 2014-12-27 16:32:50

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

The raizin is expensive as fck (well all the scsi adapters are nowadays).
And I don't want another scsi adapter - the yamaha is working fine - but I need the ide to work!

As stated in my first post I've already metered the IDE port and every pin (except ground of course) is giving a voltage reading... soo the traces can't be broke am I right?
I could COMPARE the readings but for that I'd need the data from an actually working IDE port (so if someone wants to measure theirs - by all means please do) icon_smile

Also I can not make up what's the actual IC doing IDE control on the pcb because I can not find anything in the technical docs about IDE. Only scsi and fdd... strange.

Thanks.

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#20 2014-12-27 16:38:50

marduk
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

Anyway the voltages only tell half (or quarter) the story of course - the waveforms should be viewed on a scope and so forth...

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#21 2015-01-09 18:43:50

override
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

The raizin is not that expensive when you consider what you're getting.. Much easier to transfer sample to/from your PC and much quieter than having an internal hd mounted..
but if you're looking for cheaper search google for the SCSI2SD. It is about $80 and would be much better than dealing with old IDE's imho. I am using one in an e6400.

Last edited by override (2015-01-09 18:44:07)

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#22 2015-02-05 16:01:17

Francisf
Member

Re: e5000 Ultra, HDD install nightmare

Marduk,
you don't need to format the drive on a PC. Just fit it in the E5K and format it using Disk/Utils/Format - select "E-mu" format and you're done.

Also, 2.5" laptop drives are a LOT quieter than standard 3.5" drives, if you have one. I just fitted this one, and it's much quieter:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005 … ge_o08_s00

Frank

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