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#1 2014-12-16 11:40:16

Rivet31
Member

Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

Hello all,
Really loving the forum, delighted to finally be a part of the Emu sound and saying goodbye to 7 years of using flat lifeless software(no debates please..) I got an Esynth last night, it's a classic model but has been upgraded to Ultra status so it's got Eos 4.7. I've loaded samples in through a SCSI CD successfully, messed around with some cord setups, FX, beat munger etc.. But I can't seem to get any sound from the built in ROM presets. Really loving the machine but would love to have access to the presets too. Also, does the factory Ultra upgrade include the AD converters? I've heard the classic models have a warmer more rounded tone and since I already have an akai S1000 I'd prefer something darker for bass and stuff.
Thanks a lot for any feedback.

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#2 2014-12-17 21:25:57

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

First thing to check would be in Master-> Misc -> Disable sound rom?
If the presets are not producing sound this may setting may need to be changed.

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#3 2014-12-17 22:53:50

Rivet31
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

Thanks a lot for the response override, really busy with work so haven't even looked at the sampler since I posted this but hopefully have a couple of hours tomorrow nite to check it out. Hopefully it's as simple as checking the master menu, but its only showing 64mb of ram and I was told it had 128mb installed, I read somewhere that if the ROM is active it halves the amount of RAM available?

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#4 2014-12-18 01:01:49

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

yes, having the ROM enabled halves the amount of RAM you can use.. but check that setting anyway.. you can also check if the presets are "seeing" the ROM samples by opening a one of the flash presets and editing it. in the voice menu you should be able to see the samples saved in ROM that the preset voices are assigned to.. if those are empty, your ROM is not enabled.. another way to check is going to the DISK menu. you should see an icon for the ROM there if it is enabled
the ULTRA's have 4 rom slots. There are two esynth ROMS (esynth and orbit; aka EROM1 and EROM2). I assume you have a v1 esynth rom. You can check what ROM you have by accessing the disk menu and "loading" the ROM. It will give it's name when it tries to load the bank. The Esynth rom (EROM1) must be installed in ROM 0 and Orbit (EROM2) in ROM 1 for the preset voices to be assigned to the ROM samples correctly.. so if ROM is enabled, and you're still not getting output you should check that the ROM is installed in the right slot.. failing that, you should check the voice/output assignment for the presets.. although they should be assigned to the master outputs by default..

also just to clarify one thing.. you must have an EMU E5000 Ultra or something with an ESYNTH faceplate..  This is not a "classic" model. The Classic and Ultra EMU's have different hardware (different motherboards, components etc). it is impossible for a "classic" to install EOS 4.7 (they only go up to 4.61).. So you're on a full fledged ultra, my friend icon_smile

Last edited by override (2014-12-18 01:20:43)

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#5 2014-12-24 04:20:54

pacific202
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:12:29)

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#6 2014-12-24 14:46:30

Rivet31
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

Yeah apparently it got fitted with the ultra upgrade but it was an original Esynth. As far as I can tell(the OS is waaaaay more complicated than my S1000!!) I can access the individual samples after I load up the Rom presets, which reads EPROM Vol.1.2. After some aimless tinkering I did manage to assign a single sample to a preset but I honestly don't know how I did it. Just need a few nights with the manual and I'm sure ill start to understand her. I'm wondering though, does the factory upgrade include the AD converters? I'd prefer the classic model for its dirtier, warmer tone(for bass) as I'm REALLY happy with my akai for crispy crunchy drums. I sampled an 808 bass drum and clipped the inputs a bit and it sounded almost exactly like doing the same thing on my akai.

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#7 2014-12-24 23:40:57

pacific202
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:12:43)

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#8 2015-01-09 18:41:08

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

In EOS you have sample slots (S0-S999).. but you also have extra slots if ROM cards are installed.
When you have a ROM installed in the ROM 0 slot on the motherboard you get more samples in slots X0-X999, and if a ROM is installed in ROM 1 slot you get samples in Y0-Y999

From the 'sample manage menu" and the "preset voice edit" you can dial in the ROM sample to select by typing in the value for its location. For example, typing in "1001" takes you to Sample X001 (eg the first sample in ROM for ROM SLOT 0). Typing in "2001" will take you to the first sample in ROM for ROM slot 1 (Y001)

So.. to change the presets to their proper samples, select a ROM preset and edit it. In the voice menu go to where it says "EMPTY SAMPLE" for each voice and add 1000 to whatever number is there. This should land the voice on the correct ROM sample.. Then save your changes

With respect to the Classic -> Ultra Upgrade.. What I mean to say is that, as far as I am aware, Ultras require an entirely different motherboard and processor. So a classic to ultra 'upgrade' would involve completely replacing the motherboard and processor.. So you'd have a "classic" in that the faceplace was the classic logo but the guts would be all ultra (with the exception of any expansions).. Definitely a rare unit. I would love to see pics of the inside if you have a chance!

I have a rare E4X Turbo Hollywood Gold, which was the top of the line E4X of its day (pre ultras) and had every expansion and upgrade installed icon_smile

Last edited by override (2015-01-09 18:55:50)

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#9 2015-01-09 18:54:46

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

pacific202 wrote:

The Ultra upgrade was a complete motherboard replacement and would have included all outputs.  You can tell this from the service manual schematics, which list a completely different motherboard design for the Ultra models but have no references to transitional hybrid mode.

Yep thats what im saying.. Classic face, ultra guts.

As for the differences between the Ultras and Classics (i have both) Here's what you'll probably notice:
- navigating the menu's and any sample editing is way faster on the ultras (updated processor etc)
- the ultras have a "hotter" sound. the output has much more bass compared to the classics. the classics sound a little "darker" and flatter imo
- also no beat munging on the classics
- and I *thiiink*, may be remembering incorrectly at the moment as im not in front of my sampler, but I recall the ultra's having an extra zplane filter

Once cool thing about the ultras is they have an additional, extra slot for CPU DRAM. So you can upgrade your DRAM to 16mb by putting any 72pin simm in it!

pacific202 wrote:

It seems like the presets present in your system memory are the wrong version for the sample RAM, this is probably the Ultra/Classic incompatibilities I've read about before.  Even if you did figure out how to map the proper sample into the preset then you wouldn't be able to save it back into the preset memory as it's read-only.  Hope that makes sense.

Actually that is not true. Flash preset memory is not read only.  In fact, you are prompted to save your changes every time you exit the preset edit menu after having modified a flash preset. I have both classic and ultra models and I have both Esynth V1 and V2 ROMS (Esynth and Orbit). You can place the ROMS in a classic and load the bank of ROM presets, then go to Bank -> Flash ->  RAM to FLASH to copy the presets over into flash memory. The only limitation is the Classics dont have enough preset memory to save all of the presets for BOTH roms. However, one rom works fine (and takes up the majority of your preset memory in the process). There is no difference between the Classic and Ultra models with respect to how they deal with and access samples/presets from Flash/ROM.

There are two potential issues, both easily resolved.
1. the ROM is installed in the wrong slot on the motherboard and thus the samples are not in the "location" that the ROM is trying to access. All you need to do is swap the ROM slots to test if this resolves the problem.,
2. The presets loaded were not saved correctly (eg the presets were saved to flash when they were pointing to samples in sample memory (S0-S999) and are not pointing to samples in ROM membory (X0-999, and Y0-999). This is much more involved. You would need to either get a copy of the original presets in an E4B bank, load them into RAM, and then copy the RAM presets to Flash memory.. Failing that you would have to manually assign each sample for each preset to the correct ROM sample location.

Last edited by override (2015-01-09 19:11:52)

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#10 2015-01-10 16:36:35

pacific202
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:13:01)

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#11 2015-01-12 15:33:51

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

pacific202 wrote:

You're assuming that your E4X behaves in the same way that the E-Synth does, and it doesn't.  I've recently loaded an E4X ROM into my E-Synth and it missed all of the on-board presets.

Actually it does. You seem to have a number of misconceptions about these units. There isn't any magic happening here. the software running those units are exactly the same (provided you are on the most up to date version OS 4.62 or that both units have the same OS installed)...  There are no differences between the esynth, e4k, e4x, e6400, e4x turbo, e4 hollywood gold etc. They all use the exact same SOFTWARE which determines how they handle presets. Hence, they all handle ROM/Flash presets the same way. How do I know? Because I have been using these units for about 16 years and I have actually done what you are trying to do successfully...   

You need to look into the following

1) What ROM did you take from your E4X to put in your Esynth? Is it an Esynth ROM or a Proteus 2000 ROM. What version? etc..Don't just assume that the random ROM in your E4X is an Esynth ROM.. It could be any of a number of Proteus expansion ROMS,  or perhaps the orbit esynth ROM... or maybe its FLASH RAM. Check what ROM it is by going to Disk and looking at the 'info' for the ROM. The name of the preset bank stored on the ROM will also tell you what ROM you're dealing with. Browse the banks on the ROM to check it out.

2) What ROM slot did you install the ROM into? I have already explained this, but based on your response it doesn't sound like you've tried the other slot... The slot depends on what presets are loaded on your Esynth. For example, if you have the Esynth v1 Presets loaded on the sampler, you would need to install the Esynth V1 rom into ROM slot 1 on the motherboard. If you had the orbit rom you'd need to install in slot 2. The preset sample voices are mapped to ROM samples in specific PHYSICAL LOCATIONS (eg slots 1 or 2). It is 'easier" to just pop into ROM Slot 2 because to put it in ROM slot 01 you'd have to remove all the RAM first..  99% chance this issue is down to you installing it in the wrong slot. Have you tried both slots or not?

I'm somewhat confused because you said you were testing the differences between the ultra and classic models, yet you said you were working with an E4X and an Esynth which are both classic models...

Last edited by override (2015-01-12 16:05:53)

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#12 2015-01-12 21:09:32

pacific202
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:13:17)

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#13 2015-01-12 23:29:54

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

pacific202 wrote:

override, I've been working with E-mu samplers for a little longer than you but that's neither here nor there.

if that is the case i'm surprised you still haven't figured it out yet... what's more surprising is you'd rather argue with me when I am trying to help you out. suit yourself.

pacific202 wrote:

I think you've misunderstood a lot of what I've said

Again, no.. but you can continue to believe some arbitrary "preset" incompatibility exists.. All a preset stored in flash does is point to a ROM sample in a specific location. It doesn't matter what ROM is installed, or what model of Emulator 4 or Ultra sampler you're using. You can toss any compatible ROM with sample data saved to it into the unit and, provided that ROM has a sample stored in XNNN (say for example X001 - Sine A2) and the preset references sample XNNN, whatever sample is stored in that location on the ROM will be played back. For the last and final time, it does not matter what ROM you're using OR what E4 (or above) sampler you have.

If you have presets saved to flash memory and a rom installed, but get no playback, and see that the samples are missing in the preset edit window, your rom is installed in the wrong slot. period. If there was ANY rom installed in the slot that the flash preset references samples from, those sample voices would populate with whatever happened to be on the rom.

i have done it tons of times; thrown a ROM into a sampler that already had presets saved in flash and, as long as the ROM is in the correct slot so the flash preset is accessing samples from the right location, the ROM samples will be used to playback the preset.. I have installed an E6870E (Esynth 16MB ROM; the "ultra version") in a Emu E6400 Classic model, loaded the presets and got it working. Any incompatibilities for ROMS and ultra/classic machines that used to exist were solved with OS updates. oh and i'm also using a Proteus 2000 Extreme Lead v2 ROM, with presets I made on my E4XT Ultra, in an E4K keyboard..

pacific202 wrote:

and I'd rather we focus on the OP's question than get into what you think are my issues.

That's funny because the only "help" you've given is telling the OP that the ROM is incompatible with the Presets, that there's nothing that can be done about it, and suggesting he should sell it to you instead.. great advice

Rivet31, I think I've given you enough to resolve this but if you have any questions post back. No need to toss the ROM icon_smile Cheers

oh and just for the record pacific,   am happy to help you out with your issue because 1) solving it will contribute to the knowledge base this form is trying to build and 2) i know it is possible to do what you're trying to do: i've done it myself.

Last edited by override (2015-01-13 00:06:55)

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#14 2015-01-13 00:05:40

pacific202
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

Your insulting and arrogant tone are really distasteful to me, I'll leave you to build your knowledge base then.

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#15 2015-01-13 00:21:11

override
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

pacific202 wrote:

Your insulting and arrogant tone are really distasteful to me

pacific202, I posted to help offer solutions to yours and the OPs problem but every time I said something you argued with me instead of working to troubleshooting the issue. 

there are people who know way more about the emulators than I do out there. the same applies to you. moral of the story is don't argue with someone who's trying to help you when you don't really know what you're talking about.  seriously though. i don't profess to know everything about the emus, but in this case and for this particular subject I know what I'm talking about. And, as you have figured out, I am fed up with trying to convince you of that.

Last edited by override (2015-01-13 00:25:30)

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#16 2015-01-13 22:35:16

MadGav
Member

Re: Esynth Rom presets("eosmosis"...) present but no sound?

Hey override, with the Extreme Lead ROM in the E4K could you access all ~1500 (iirc!) samples or just the first 1000? I've noticed that the EROM is the first half of the Composer ROM (at least the samples!) and is I think quite a lot more common.

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