emusonacid! legacy

Hello,

I recently bought a E6400 Ultra. It won't boot, won't do anything.
When I power it on, I get some lights to light up on the front panel, and the LCD shows a full block (all pixels lit). I can power cycle a few times but it's always the same. No floppy activity. The backlight never lights up.

I believe something got zapped on the motherboard when the previous owner tried to install (incorrectly) a HDD.

I have checked the power supply voltages on the connector and I believe everything there is correct (-12.2V, +4.97V, +12.01V).

A question I have is, if you remove everything (RAM, CPU RAM, System FLASH) on a working Ultra, does it show something on the LCD? Does it attempt to boot on the floppy?
I changed the ram, so I don't think that's the problem, and I tried using a 16mb EDO ram in the CPU Ram slot as that's what I have to test with, but no change. I don't have another System Flash to test, of course.

If someone can confirm the above tests, it would be very helpful.

Thank you.

Marc

When you connect a HD to the mainboard using the wrong power supply cable (12v & 5V are swapped) you will fry the HD, nothing else.

Disconnect and reconnect all cables from the mainboard and check if anything changed.
It might be just a loose connection that can be fixed this way.

Or ...
It might me the Boot Flash SIMM. Therefore the devices (display, front panel, floppy disc, etc.) are not initialized when switching the E4 on and they remain in a random stage.
I'm no expert and can't say any specific.

I forgot to mention I tried removing and reconnecting all cables. No Change.

So if I understand this correctly, if you remove the boot flash simm, the E4 is a doorstop?

It was one of the things I wanted to know.. what can I remove and still have the E4 display something, eliminating the potential problem.
Does it run without ram? Does it run without any CPU ram. Does it run without system flash? That kind of thing.

I don't suppose there is a way (easy or not) to reflash the system flash, when it won't even boot? I could replace the flash chips on the simm, but if I don't have a way of programming them, what would be the point?

Marc

For further diagnostics you need a technical service manual as I assume that all testing procedures are described there.

I suggest to contact EMU and ask for the next service center for the hardware samplers.
You could order the Boot Flash SIMM at EPRelectronics but you don't have the guarantee that this will fix the issue.

Ask if they can do some kind of diagnostics via phone with your help.
When they say that the issue sounds like deleted Boot Flash SIMM, ask if they can check and re-program the Boot Flash SIMM.
Ask for the costs including packing and shipping in advance.

Thanks for suggestions.

Would the OS Flash SIMM from a E64 work in my E6400 Ultra? I know someone with a E64 that might be willing to help.
It would confirm if its my Flash, or something else that's not working in my sampler.

If it works, I might start looking into making myself a flash programmer, and copy the E64 code onto mine. I'm sure such a device would be quite popular on this forum. :)

Marc

I have an EIV (same motherboard as an E64) and some Ultras.

I had a quick look at the schematics for both and the pins are different for the EIV compared to the Ultra. I had the impression that you could upgrade older EIVs to EOS4.x by having a FLASH SIMM with sufficient memory [more than 1M] but I don't know where you'd get such a beast without making one yourself. Perhaps the E6400 and related products share a pin usage with the Ultra and can be so upgraded.

I'm not sure which version of EOS was the first to be used with an Ultra so even if you got the one from an E6400 [and the pins were correct] it (more particularly the boot loader) might not recognise the hardware and thus not do anything (useful). I'll check when I get a chance.

You can get a new Ultra SIMM from EPR Electronics for under $US80 and it has EOS4.7 already installed.

If you can check for the bootloader, that would be great.

I know I can get a new Flash SIMM, but at $120 with shipping, it's a bit of an expensive gamble.
I guess I'll have to find an Ultra user locally, and see if I can do a swap test.

I checked the schematic - the FLASH /ROM SIMMs are identical for all the E4 series that have them (the Esynth and E4 keyboard don't) except the ultra which has a different pin format. There does not appear to be any reason for this other than the ability of the Ultra SIMMs to address more memory, but the pins are radically different (not compatible in any way - like next to no pins have the same function). So you would need a SIMM from another ultra.

As for hardware support, the EOS TSM does not specify which versions support which modules, so I suppose you could use any version on any E4 series sampler, but...

Just incidentally, the TSM does describe some PROM tests (which are done automatically every boot). If you can tell which LEDs are illuminated when it 'hangs' I could tell you where the PROM has 'had a problem'. There are about 8 tests, but basically [the first test] if the 'master' LED turns off then the CPU is running. If the master LED is on then the CPU is not running either because the FLASH SIMM is dead (not connected properly or otherwise faulty), or the CPU itself is dead.

If you manage to get to EOS, then there are some tests which you can do, but these are "password protected". The diagnostics password is '1358'.

I guess I need an Ultra SIMM to test then.

I get different Led patterns on the front depending on if the Flash SIMM is present or not. Those are the only two combinations I get.

Here is the pattern (Lit) :
Normal (RAM+CPU RAM+FLASH+FLOPPY): Master, Disk, Preset Manage & Edit, Sample - Edit only, SCSI, Page Prev & next.
With or without Floppy connected and/or sample ram and/or cpu ram: Same as above.
Without Flash SIMM: Master, Disk, Preset - Manage only , Sample - Manage only, Midi, SCSI, Page Prev & next.

So basically, only the removal of the Flash SIMM changes the leds.

What does the TSM say for those PROM tests ?

I don't get to EOS. LCD screen is always a solid block of pixels on start-up.

Thanks

Marc

I don't see any benefit from taking the SIMM out. No SIMM = no program so you are only seeing what happens when the CPU hangs (because it has no boot program to execute).

At start up all LEDs are turned on and the relevant LED is turned off if a test passes. Since your Master LED does not turn off (in either case) it implies that [given that the power supply rails are good under load as you have testified]:
1. your CPU is dead (there are varying degrees of deadness, but in this case it could be anything from copmplete deadness to a burnt out driver on one of the address pins, but you'd still need to replace the CPU to fix it)
2. your oscillator is not oscillating
3. the reset circuitry is not operating (holding the cpu in reset)
4. something else (one of the buffers) has died and is causing contention on the address or data bus
- and/or -
5. The FLASH SIMM has died or become partially/completely erased (so you would still need to get another one)

Comments:

The change that E-MU made with the pin outs of the FLASH SIMM on the ULTRA means that ithas similar pin functions when compared with the DRAM SIMM meaning that if the FLASH SIMM were placed (inadvertantly) in the DRAM socket or vice versa there would be no damage to either the FLASH SIMM or the motherboard. This is NOT true of the FLASH/ROM SIMMs in other E4 series devices.

Crystal oscillators are relatively fragile and easily damaged if subject to mechanical shock.

Since the FLASH SIMM is mounted vertically and 'protected' by the DRAM SIMM it seems unlikely that it would get damaged unless it was intentionally removed and mishandled. (something could have jammed between it and the back of the front panel, but that seems unlikely)

It is more likely that if the box died when someone was trying to 'install a HDD' then they dropped something metal in the box while the power was on and let some of the smoke out in a non-obvious way - ICs only work if you keep the smoke in... If that's the case the balance of probability would lean towards there being more than one IC damaged (bacuse most signals run between multiple ICs). The same would be true if the motherboard was mishandled and some ICs were subject to static damage. Something to ponder when you are considering how much $$$ to spend on fixing the thing. There could be multiple problems in any case. It might be cheaper to get another box [hope you didn't spend too much on this one]

In any case check the oscillator, the CPU rails, the reset signal as a start. Then you might like to look at what's happening on the address and data busses. If they all seem reasonable, then you might like to consider a different FLASH SIMM.

Wow. Thanks!

I definitely have a workload ahead of me.
I'll start with the osc, and reset lines, as those seem obvious to me. Without them, the CPU doesn't do anything.

Thank you for your time, and I'll report back when I have done some tests.

Marc