emusonacid! legacy

Hi Paul,

please write with normal fonts-settings & -colors and emphasize only important words, e.g. menu entries of EOS, in bold letters or with quote unquote.

To EOS:
The GUI (Graphic User Interface) of EOS is only a Graphic Supported User Interface. You cannot move around with the cursor like in Windows, MacOS or Unix.

You seem to be stuck too deep in modern Operating Systems. You need to learn that older instruments have a user interface with a lot of limitations. EOS has one of the easiest User Interfaces. The amount of parameters and options of a Preset is high. The E4-series is a complex instrument.

It seems you didn't read the manual carefully enough and therefore you are now confused and impatient.
I wonder you didn't write that you tried to press the LINK-button on the screen with your finger...
Maybe you tried but you didn't write it...

I recommend studying the manual again.

Starting with your first posting I tried to follow your intensions in regards to linking several presets:
I loaded a bank with some Presets.
I created a new, empty Preset in Preset Manage
I entered Preset Edit and hit F4 to go to the LINKS-page.
I saw "No Links in Preset" as the preset was of course empty and the LINKS-button was highlighted to indicate that I'm currently on the LINKS-page of this Preset.

To Link a Preset to the currently edited one you have to press F1 (Utils), followed by F1 (New). Then you are in the postion to move the cursor to the right, right onto the LINK to select the Preset that you want to link to the actual Preset.
You cannot edit the name of a LINK. The LINK is just a reference, not the Preset itself. You can only modify the name of the original Preset that you link to another preset.
Therefore you have to first select the Preset you want to rename and use Preset Manage -> Rename (F2).

As a conclusion of your narrations, please read the following:
You can stack several presets by using the LINK-option.
When adding a new Link (LINK -> Utils -> New) you have to keep in mind that this Link is only a reference to a Preset.

When linking Presets to another Preset, the linked Presets are responding in the range that is limited by the settings of the Keyboard zone (Links-KyWin), the Velocity zone (Links-VelWin) and the MIDI-Filters of this Link (Links-MidiFltrs).
The original Preset is not modified and can still be used together with other presets.

If you want to integrate a linked preset into a "fundamental" preset so that you can later on delete the original Preset, you have to use UTILS->SUBSME to subsume the linked preset.
By using SUBSUME all voice-settings of the linked preset (except the LINK-settings of the original Preset) are copied to the "fundamental" Preset.

This will solve your problem.

mosrob wrote:To Link a Preset to the currently edited one you have to press F1 (Utils), followed by F1 (New). Then you are in the postion to move the cursor to the right, right onto the LINK to select the Preset that you want to link to the actual Preset.

I think there is a comms problem here. The problem Paul has is that when you press Utils, New you see the new link L1 appear on the first line, but the L1 field is NOT highlighted - in fact no fields are highlighted (apart from the Links button indicator on the bottom line), so you are not "...in a position to move the cursor...".
Mine worked fine but was trying to recreate the problem by deleting and adding links when all of a sudden I got the same symptoms - the highlight disappeared. If you press Page Next the cursor/highlight re-appears but when you go back to the Links-Main screen it's gone again. This means you cannot edit any entries on that screen.
Once it was gone, I couldn't get it back until after a power-off & on cycle. Now I can't make it break again, so this is a very weird one
(running 4.7 eos on an e5000 with no rfx card).
Phil.

Hello!

Have checked my E4XT Ultra (RFX32) and my E5000 Ultra (no RFX32). Both works fine with ESO 4.7.

No problems with highlighted L1 field or any other problems you have explained.

Try to reinstall the EOS or go back to 4.61 and check, if the problem is still there.

Best Wishes!

Christian

Thanks for trying Christian. I've still not managed to break it again, but have found a reliable way of provoking Paul's second post problem re. sounds mysteriously changing.
The exact buttons to press are:-
Master, Bank, Erase, Ok
Disk, navigate to Classic Beef (which I think is B74 in the Keys Sprints folder on the Producer's #2 CD but not 100% sure as it's on my hard disc), Load
Disk, navigate to Synth Ork Strngs (B34 on same CD), Load, Merge
Disk

You should now have nothing lit except Page Next, and the display should be 'P000 Classic Beef'

Play a MIDI key or just press Audition (this is C4 on mine) and remember the sound
Preset Manage, New, 'P002 Empty Preset', Ok, Ok
Preset Edit, Links, Utils, New
should now have 'L1 P000 Classic Beef' on Links-Main screen
Exit

We're still on the new preset. Play a key or press Audition - sounds as before
Page Prev, Page Prev to go to the original Classic Beef preset. Press Audition - sounds as before
Page Next, Page Next to go to the new preset. Press Audition - sounds completely different!

So is this a combination of mosrob's explanation of preset properties being different to the linked preset, and maybe an EOS quirk whereby a new preset is not fully established until you leave it and return?
Even weirder is if you repeat the above but skip the loading of the Ork Strngs preset (which isn't actually used), you don't get the problem..... this is a curious beast indeed!

Hi guys,

THANKS very much indeed for all of your helpful advice. i really do appreciate that and i will check it all out later on.

i have spent a long time searching thru the manual looking for the solutions but as i say not everything as worked out quite as i expected. And so i have been going round in circles on the same pages of the manual for a month or so. The tasks i am trying to perform are quite basic ones and so not at all what i would consider to be complex in any way.

i posted a thread asking for some tuition here in the UK but nobody seems to be able to help out at the moment.

Best,

Paul

Hello plz!

Hmm, not easy to explain, but in your example, the presets are not well chosen.

These presets have the effects programmed and also some midi controller (chords)!

So please choose some really simple presets, like one sawtooth preset and a pulse preset without any chords or effects!
Or far more easy, make two simple but different presets by sample something.

Than test it again with a NEW PRESET, and so on.

Don´t forget:

- When you are "linking" presets with different effect settings, you will loose the effect settings of the Preset which is the LINK Preset!

- When using Multimode, for example Channel 1, and you are in some of the Preset menus and change the Preset, you will still hear the Preset which is used in Multimode channel 1!!!

I made some tests as you described, and with "Raw Presets" (no effects, no controller programmed) it works as it should be.

I also did the test exactly as you described (it is the Producer Series Vol. 1). And the new preset with the "linked" Classic Beef, has lost all programmed Chords, Envelopes, and so on, of the original Classic Beef Preset, BECAUSE it is now only the linked Preset and nothing else!!!

And don´t forget that you have no sample in the New Preset!!! Just a linked Preset!!!!

But when you use this new preset, for example in multimode, and tweaking some midi controllers (especially Midi A), it will sounds exactly like the Original Classic Beef WITHOUT the effects!!!!

Hope this is helpful.......

Chris

Ok Chris, this has been very helpful so thanks to you & mosrob for taking the time to explain it. Sounds like it's back in Paul's court (the presets were his choice) to see if he wants to persevere with these and how he wants to layer them.

Thanks guys thats really helpful indeed.

i will give it another shot over the next couple of days.

To be honest, when i tried using LINK last week with different Presets, most of them worked totally fine. However, i had (and am obviously still having) problems with CLASSIC BEEF, JX3P BRASS, SYNTH ORK STGS, and a MEMORY MOOG BRASS Presets (all of these originate from the PRODUCER SERIES CD).

When i tried to LAYER these particular Presets using the LAYER function exactly the same problems occured.

If you frequently intend to use the same combinations of presets together you might as well create a new preset that combines them all within one preset using the copy group command and save this preset as part of the bank.
This uses no more sample memory than LINKS, but you will have a tailor made stack that you can recall by just selecting the new preset number, plus you can independently assign each layers key cross-fade, vol, pan, tune/detune, filter settings, C/C assignments etc.

A great way to add expression is to set up a cord in each group that lowers the volume in one group whilst raising it in the other group, assign this to a C-C and you are able to manually cross-fade the two sounds as you play.
HINT....This is also a good way to chop between drum loops and create evolving hybrids.
Works for me.

Thanks JahFunk,

i think i am going to switch to using the method you suggest. i did try this way a week or so ago but only with the Classic-Beef and Synth Ork Strings and so it did not work (due to the symptons previously discussed in this thread). All that aside, i just spent an hour or so stacking various couples of Presets (from the Emu CD Library) and it seemed to work fine. i think this is going to be a much better way for me to make the Presets i want. For my own library i would like some split-point and some stacked Presets. Stuff like left-hand-bass with right-hand-pad, and Layers like Brass with Choir etc.

I think i will started learning how to Layer non-complex type sounds (so avoiding the likes of Classic-Beef for now) without all the initial-controllers (as Christian pointed out). Having lots on LINKS in a Bank is going to be too messy and cluttered for my liking. Its ok if you want to Link a couple of Presets quickly or temporarily, but i am not going to base all my programing (storing) around it. Copying Presets to a blank location is far more tidy a method.

Ta,

Paul