emusonacid! legacy

Hi folks,

i was not going to post a seperate thread for this (because i don't want to appear like i am dominating the forum in any way), but then i decided it would be a lot easier to (for a few different reasons).

i have Cubase Artist 6 (which is like a scaled down version of 6 FULL) and i have been learning it over the past year (as well as learning the Nord, Emu and Sibelius !).

Cubase comes shipped with HALion SE and i paid to upgrade to HALion Sonic last year as the sounds are much better and there are more of them, amongst other things. So at the moment my Cubase is a ROMpler.

Now, there is a HALion 4 which has the facility to sample and i know that at least a couple of members on here use Cubase in their line of work
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vs ... start.html

It would cost me £80 to upgrade (according to the website) and purchase the downdable version of HALion 4.

What i was wondering was does everyone on here who creates/edits their own samples (on the Emu) use an additional program to perform these tasks (such as Cubase) ?? Or do most people do it all directly on the Emu (obviously via its buttons and display screen) ??

On gigs i would still be wanting to midi up my Emu to an external keyboard controler to play it (and so not to hook the controler keyboard to my laptop and play the samples thru Cubase).

Thanks very much indeed.

Paul

Nowadays there are much more comfortable tools for processing samples than EOS.

If someone uses EOS or a Mac/PC depends on the possibility to im- & export samples from EOS to a Mac/PC.
Only the Ultra-owner using EOS 4.70 can exchange samples with a Mac/PC easily via the FAT32-formatted mass storage media.
All others have to use Sample Dump via SCSI or MIDI for processing samples more accurate with a tool on a Mac/Pc or what else.

It looks as Halion 4.x is very easy to handle. Beside the fact that you have to learn to handle another software, you have to think about if you want to transfer the sounds later on to your EMU. In this case you would have to do the work twice... which means "less time for other things".

The samples you would use in Halion might not be compatible (24 bit/32 bit float, maybe @ 96.000 Hz) with EOS (16 bit @ max. 50.000 Hz). You would need time for conversion. And what about the library of Halion? I think you cannot export samples from the library. But if you use the library and the sounds you created with Halion just for pre-production or preparation of your playback tracks, then Halion would be a great tool.

You have to think about the pros and cons. Just my 2 cents.

Robert

mosrob wrote:If someone uses EOS or a Mac/PC depends on the possibility to im- & export samples from EOS to a Mac/PC.
Only the Ultra-owner using EOS 4.70 can exchange samples with a Mac/PC easily via the FAT32-formatted mass storage media.
All others have to use Sample Dump via SCSI or MIDI for processing samples more accurate with a tool on a Mac/Pc.

i have PC, Cubase Artist 6, and an Emu Ultra (4.70) which is FAT formatted.

mosrob wrote:It looks as Halion 4.x is very easy to handle. Beside the fact that you have to learn to handle another software, you have to think about if you want to transfer the sounds later on to your EMU. In this case you would have to do the work twice... which means "less time for other things".

The samples you would use in Halion might not be compatible (24 bit/32 bit float, maybe @ 96.000 Hz) with EOS (16 bit @ max. 50.000 Hz). You would need time for conversion. And what about the library of Halion? I think you cannot export samples from the library. But if you use the library and the sounds you created with Halion just for pre-production or preparation of your playback tracks, then Halion would be a great tool.

Would the CONVERSIONS you mention need to be done with a totally different program (ie. it can't be done in Cubase/HALion) ??

i was wondering what tools other people use for editing/creating their samples. Cubase has been mentioned on here a few times so i wondered if it was the most popular. But i was not at all aware of the potentional issues you have just mentioned and so maybe people don't use Cubase/HALion for such tasks ?? Perhaps some people do EVERYTHING on the Emu itself without the need for any 3rd party software ??

What i was thinking was to Create/Edit samples in Cubase/HALion and then transfer them onto the Emu (i have removable IcyDock Caddy system now), but this might not be possible due to the bit-rate conflictions you have just pointed out. The samples would be for live performance (ie. played on the Emu via a midi controlerkeyboard, rather than a sequencer or whatever playing then within Cubase on my laptop).

You could try Chicken Systems Translator
Link.... http://www.chickensys.com/products/sw_iteminfo.php?sw_name=Translator+Pro

This software claims to translate from any sample format to any other
Currently supported source formats that translator will convert to E-mu banks

Akai/MESA/Pulsar
Akai MPC Series
Akai S-5000/Z Series
Apple EXS24
Emu E3/ESi
Ensoniq EPS/ASR
GigaStudio
Kurzweil
MOTU MachFive
NI Battery
NI Kontakt
Reason
Propellerheads Recycle I & II
Roland S-7x
Roland S-50/550/330/W30
SampleCell I & II (PC/Mac)
SoundFont
Cakewalk SFZ
ShortCircuit
Steinberg HALion
Unity DS-1/Session
Roland Fantom Series
Steinberg LM-4
NI Reaktor
NED Synclavier
WAV-AIFF-SD2-etc.

Using this software you could build a preset in HALion and then convert it to Emu E4b.

I just do it in the Emu, although some times I use Soundforge or Recycle to process WAVs

TIP
Soundforge is a good way to capture your computers audio directly.
This is a handy way of recording multi samples from a VSTi such as Sylenth or Massive.
The synth can be recorded directly into Soundforge from the PCs sound card.
Start points, loop markers, fades, EQ, compression etc can be edited inside the program.
The sounds can then be named and saved into a folder in .WAV format.
You can then load the folder of .WAV files onto removable media to transfer into the Emu.

JAHFUNK wrote:I just do it in the Emu, although some times I use Soundforge or Recycle to process WAVs

Thats really handy to know. i thought you once said you have Cubase, but do you not have Steinberg HALion to run with it ?? Or do you just use Cubase for sequencing stuff (which is all i have mostly done up til now) ??

Thanks Mark,

What i was also wondering was this :-

i was going thru some of Time&Space Sample Audio CD libraries and (as you will know) these contain mostly Wav. files of many instruments and idioms of music/styles etc.

If i wanted to edit these Wav. files then would it be worth doing so in something like Halion or would you do any such editing actually on the Emu itself ?? For example, if i was going to shorten/lengthen it, add a Swell/Fade (or whatever), you could do all of this in Cubase and then transfer the perfectly finished version into the Emu ?? Or would you still just do it all directly onboard the Emu ??

I generally sequence VST synths, external synths and samplers using Cubase.

I normally edit samples inside the Emu sampler eg. fade in/out, loop, truncate and often pitch shift and stretch too.

Sometimes I use Soundforge as a sample editor.

Sorry if i have confused you before mentioning Cubase. I was just suggesting Cubase as one of the tools you might also use to pitch change a sample, as I know you have it.
I suggested this because you may get better results from its pitch change algorithm.
If you import a WAV as audio you can stretch it and/or pitch change it in Cubase without the use of HALion, then render and export the results as a WAV file for the Emu.
Don,t get carried away with HALion as I didn't mean you to use this VSTi, just Cubase itself.

Why not try importing a bunch of WAV files into the sampler and play around with the sample edit tools, as you mess with the functions and their effect on the samples you will become more familiar with the power/limitations of working with only the Emu.
Don't forget in the cords section you also have amp envelopes (for fades) S/Start (for non destructive sample cropping), filters (for EQ), and then you have the ability to digitally resample your results.
Most of the time the Emu gets the job done without any hassle.

Wen talking about CONVERSION, I meant resampling of samples with a high sample rate (e.g. 96Khz) to a rate that is in the range of the EMU (max. 50 Khz) and reducing the bit depth to 16bit.

Further more I discovered that loop-points of an imported sample are different from the settings I made in Sound Forge. I had always to do some rework.

JAHFUNK wrote:Sorry if i have confused you before mentioning Cubase. I was just suggesting Cubase as one of the tools you might also use to pitch change a sample, as I know you have it.

Don,t get carried away with HALion as I didn't mean you to use this VSTi, just Cubase itself.

Why not try importing a bunch of WAV files into the sampler and play around with the sample edit tools, as you mess with the functions and their effect on the samples you will become more familiar with the power/limitations of working with only the Emu.

Most of the time the Emu gets the job done without any hassle.

Thats great Mark, thanks for clarifying as i had a few things swimming around in my head.

Yes, once i get the replacement power adapter sorted for my caddy system i will defo try this out, ta.

mosrob wrote:Wen talking about CONVERSION, I meant resampling of samples with a high sample rate (e.g. 96Khz) to a rate that is in the range of the EMU (max. 50 Khz) and reducing the bit depth to 16bit.

Further more I discovered that loop-points of an imported sample are different from the settings I made in Sound Forge. I had always to do some rework.

Ok, thats really helpful to know thanks.