emusonacid! legacy

What is the best way to backup EOS banks saved on EMU formatted HD into FAT32 HD / PC?

First, is it OK to simultaneously connect two IDE HD to the sampler's motherboard, using those PC IDE cables designed to hook up multiple HD serially? This way, I can backup the folders from the emu format HD to the FAT32 HD within the ultra.

Would trying this potentially do any harm?

Secondly, a rewritable external SCSI device would help, but I only have one that used to work with a Roland SP-700, the connector is 50 pins and a bit wider than the computer IDE type. I guess this is a scsi 50pin connector instead of an IDE. So far I am not able to find any adapter between them. I suspect if it will work at all.

Lastly, are there better or easier way to transfer data from EMU HD to FAT32 HD?

Thanks so much for any advice!

The E4 Ultra can only handle one HD on the IDE-port.
Therefore you cannot go the first proposed way.

I guess this is a scsi 50pin connector...

Counting will help

The fact that the internal IDE-drive is formatted with EOS FAT and not with FAT32 shows that you have the standard 4.3GB drive installed.

The best solution will be to connect the EMU-HD to a PC, read out an image of the drive and burn this to a DVD. That's your backup.

Afterwards you can use a program like Translator (maybe the degraded version that came with Emulator X2 and X3) and convert the banks from the EMU-HD/DVD to Emulator X-format and use Proteus VX to convert (Export) them back to E4-format, if required.

Proteus VX is available for free @http://www.creative.com/emu/proteusvx.
The 65MB download contains also the manuals in English, French, German and Japanese.

Hi tksense
What emu are you using?
What version of EOS is it running?
When you hit disc button what is the drive name called?
How much memory is used/available on the drive?
Are you certain that the internal drive is IDE and not SCSI?
Do you have a second Emu?
Do you have any other external SCSI media?
Eg HD,Zip, Jazz or MO
Could you post a picture of the pin type on the back of the SCSI device?


Hi mosrob
As I understand it drives formatted with Emu EOS are not directly readable by a computer, so a disc image copy tool would be needed, anything you can recommend?

tksense is the owner of an E4XT Ultra.

From searching the forum you get the info:
"The E4XT Ultras came standard with an internal IDE HD, type Quantum Fireball lct 08 04 with a capacity of 4.3 GB gross, and 4112 MB net with installed Production Set Sounds."
I can confirm this.

The only tools I know just work with SCSI-drives. An ASPI-layer has to be installed on the PC.
With using EOS FAT on an internal IDE drive, you only can connect an external SCSI-drive to the E4 and backup the files to the external drive.
If you use FAT32 for the external drive, you can later on connect this drive to a computer and read out the HD.
If you use EOS FAT you can use Disk2File (http://www.zicweb.com) for making a backup of the HD or a conversion program like Translator to transform the E4 banks to another format.

mosrob wrote:With using EOS FAT on an internal IDE drive, you only can connect an external SCSI-drive to the E4 and backup the files to the external drive.
If you use FAT32 for the external drive, you can later on connect this drive to a computer and read out the HD.

Yes this would be my preferred method.
The Ultra would need to be running EOS4.7 and an external SCSI device could be connected to the sampler.
The media would need to be formatted in FAT32 then all files on your samplers HD could be copied on to this external device.
If this external SCSI Device was a HD it would need to be attached to a computer fitted with a SCSI card.
If the SCSI device was a Zip drive then the disc could be read by a second USB Zip drive attached to a computer.

If you don't have all the bits needed for either of these solutions it will require an outlay of cash, and wether the the sum involved is worthwhile depends on wether this is a once only backup or a regular thing.

If the reason for the backup is to transfer the data onto a larger IDE HD formatted in FAT32 it would be good because in future you will avoid all the problems you are currently experiencing with EOS FAT.

If this is the case I would recommend a 2.5 laptop HD and the icydock removable drive bay.

If however you want to use your library on a software sampler I would suggest mosrob has the best solution.
If you want EOS banks and if you don't have Chicken Systems Translator ($149.00) this method would be very costly.

tksense
If you are really stuck PM me and I will do the transfers for you if you post me your samplers HD.

Whoa
You may already have the solution to your problem!

I just read you are selling a Ultra with a USB drive fitted.
Before you sell try this.

Connect the two samplers via SCSI (make sure they are set on different ID numbers)
Providing the the setup is correct, EOS will hopefully allow you to see the connected sampler as an external SCSI drive when in disc browse.
Load the banks you want to keep into the Ultra formatted in EOS FAT.
Load via SCSI using the other Ultra in disc browse.
Save the banks to the USB enabled drive.

My logic is that in theory the samplers themselves could operate as SCSI drives as they are SCSI devices with memory.
Worth giving it a go.
Maybe it will work maybe it won't.
Anyone here had any experience of this?

Wow, thanks for all the advices so far! I always thought it'd be easy as many must have done this already. I have a PC with scsi card, but I didnt know how it can talk to emu as a scsi HD. Now thinking maybe the daemon tools can work.

I will soon try the creative methods mentioned by the pros here, hope the sampler <> sampler talking will work. I never thought of that.

Yeah I try to move the old HD data to fat32 HD and ditch the old drives. Then all sounds can be managed inside PC or the cloud easily and loaded to ultra anytime.

Thanks guys!

Hi, on the other hand, do you happen to know how to backup ROM to fat32 HD, patches, samples and all? Will it end up taking lots more space as the same samples will be saved independently to every patch?

Thanks so much!

Hi
If you have a SCSI card on your PC why not just buy one of these for only $30?
With the right cable and a blank cart your problem is solved.
Even if your Emu HD is filled to capacity it will only take 4 transfers!
Plus you can use it for file transfers after the backup.

Iomega 1GB SCSI External JAZ Drive V1000S w Power Cord/Cables
Link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iomega-1GB-SCSI-External-JAZ-Drive-V1000S-w-Power-Cord-Cables-/221173724067?pt=US_Floppy_Zip_Jaz_Drives&hash=item337efb33a3&_uhb=1

Two samplers cannot see each other on the SCSI-bus. Therefore you cannot load a bank from another sampler into your sampler.
The Ultra-sampler cannot act as an adapter, bridging between the internal IDE-drive and the SCSI-bus so that another SCSI-device can access the internal IDE-drive. This will not work.

In regards to backing up a ROM, you can copy the samples from ROM to the internal sample RAM and then save the bank to a HD.
One thing you don't get are the presets/instruments that are stored in the ROM.

tksense wrote: do you happen to know how to backup ROM to fat32 HD, patches, samples and all? Will it end up taking lots more space as the same samples will be saved independently to every patch?

Define ROM?
E-MU CD-ROM,
Akai CD-ROM,
Sampler ROM - Permanent ROM samples from Optional boards

Mosrob
Thanks for clarifying this improbable but optimistic idea about Emu to Emu transfers.
Oh well, might have been worth a punt.

mosrob wrote:The Ultra-sampler cannot act as an adapter, bridging between the internal IDE-drive and the SCSI-bus so that another SCSI-device can access the internal IDE-drive. This will not work.

Does this mean that you cannot do an automated disc backup as outlined on page 364 of the manual with an internal IDE drive to external SCSI media?
I know it works with an internal SCSI HD and assumed it would be the same with IDE.

If this is the case then a backup of an internal IDE drive formatted in EOS FAT to external SCSI device is going to be very tedious.

If so this is another good reason to upgrade to EOS4.7 and format the internal IDE HD to FAT32.
Then even if you don't have a removable HD or Compact Flash card reader, you could still open the sampler remove the drive and connect it to a computer and copy the entire thing using a simple drag and drop command.

I love 4.7 and can't really see any noticeable downsides to it, compared to the benefits.

ROM -> Proteus 2000 Sound ROM (32MB)
I took the Sound ROM of a PX7, put it into one of the ROM-sockets in my Ultra, loaded it into the Sample RAM and saved it to disc.
As described in the manual, you can only use the samples but not the presets/instruments of the Sound ROM.

In regards to the internal IDE HD:
"...so that another SCSI-device can access the internal IDE-drive."
"another SCSI-device" means that this SCSI-device has to be a MASTER, like a MAC, a PC or a sampler (AKAI, EMU, Kurzweil...).

Of course does a backup from the internal IDE HD to another SCSI-device work.
The Ultra-sampler can access its internal IDE HD and write the banks to a SCSI-device that is connected to the SCSI-bus.

Ok I get it now, the E-MU is the master accessing the internal IDE hard drive and also writing to a SCSI device.
I thought backups from IDE to SCSI were possible so I was a bit confused.
Rob. Thanks for your patience.

Backups from IDE to SCSI are possible, but the EMU were the IDE drive is installed can only make the backup.
Other devices than the EMU cannot access the internal HD via SCSI-bus.