emusonacid! legacy

Hey,

Is there any easy way of slice an drum-loop sample up in small samples on the EMU so that i can trigger them on diffrent keys.. like a rex-loop?

i have an emu 6400 ultra.

rgs
Egil

Nearest would probably be the "Beat Munging" tool on the Ultra... but I don't think it lets you assign the bits once it chops up the loop, only fiddle with the pieces within the context of a loop (so, drop bits, change tempo without effecting length of each drum sample, etc.) All the pieces of the loop remain inside the BM utility, not dumped to disk as individual samples. And when you tell it you're done messing with the loop (anything other than "cancel"), it OVERWRITES the original sample!!

[some reading of the manual later]
Nope, won't let you separate out the individual elements of the loop. But, there is a way to use it to slice up the loop... it's just kind of labour intensive.

Basically, you make a bunch of copies of your loop, then use the Beat Munger to isolate each of the loop beats and render it out as a separate sample (each copy of the loop you started with will yield one beat of the loop, since it overwrites the original sample each time). Then assign the resulting samples to whatever keys you want in a new preset.

This method will (hopefully) get the job done, but it's not exactly an elegant solution, sorry...

I sometimes map the loop to as many individual keys as there are hits I want to extract, then use sample start and the adsr envelope to isolate each hit. Has the benefit of being non destructive and easy to add more slices later (if I want to add in a hat and snare slice for instance). If you set up the envelope to isolate the first hit, then copy that zone, you then move the sample start forward, maybe a little envelope tweak and you are done.
Rough and ready, but quick. I have a blank preset template already set up that I use for this.

thank you both.. they gave me something to work on!

rgs
Egil

sixtysixnorth wrote:I sometimes map the loop to as many individual keys as there are hits I want to extract, then use sample start and the adsr envelope to isolate each hit. Has the benefit of being non destructive and easy to add more slices later (if I want to add in a hat and snare slice for instance). If you set up the envelope to isolate the first hit, then copy that zone, you then move the sample start forward, maybe a little envelope tweak and you are done.
Rough and ready, but quick. I have a blank preset template already set up that I use for this.

Let's see if I get this... so each slice becomes one voice inside a preset, working from one original sample of the loop (certainly saves on memory using only one master sample)? Then each voice has a different sample start value... hmm... I like this idea. Much more flexible than the Beat Munging solution I came up with, uses less memory, and non-destructive... plus you can use it on non-groove loops (like speeches by a certain Shrub). I like it!!

vermis_rex wrote:Let's see if I get this... so each slice becomes one voice inside a preset, working from one original sample of the loop (certainly saves on memory using only one master sample)? Then each voice has a different sample start value... hmm... I like this idea. Much more flexible than the Beat Munging solution I came up with, uses less memory, and non-destructive... plus you can use it on non-groove loops (like speeches by a certain Shrub). I like it!!

Yep, thats about the size of it. Sometimes the resolution isn't so hot on longer samples, by the nature of it there are only so many 'steps' regardless of length, but if its a problem you can always chop your loops into chunks and map those instead. My rule of thumb is 2 bars in the tempo range I tend to use (roughly 80-110 bpm). Used to be a nice tutorial on it but the link was dead when I tried today Pretty sure its been covered on here by someone (SNH perhaps?)

I might have a text copy of the tutorial somewhere, explains it much clearer than me...I like this method because it also allows me to easily isolate phrases as well as hits within loops, whether drums, instruments, or as you say voices.

If you're into re-arranging shrubbery you may like the realtime 'timestretch' effect you can do with sample start too (of course you may know it already). IIRC (not in the studio just now) you put the sample on one key, assign a real time controller to sample start, then make a trigger pattern in your sequencer of notes, be it 8ths, 16ths or whatever you fancy, then turn your realtime controller as the sequence plays. Each note then starts a little further in to the sample. Had a lot of fun with that one. Think the tutorial was on the same site however...

Cheers

Mark

I would suggest, if you use the 'sstart cord as a real time nondestructive editor on a break, you should cut down to atleast 1 beat or so. The smaller the sample the higher the resolution will be. I just came up with an evil thought... I will post on that later... anyway...

It all depends on the resolution you require with your breaks. I prefer to cut my break up into sixteenths. I have a thread some where on here that explains it pretty clearly. I also left considerations for editing breaks that are groovy (the amen break required alot of reversing to move the samples to a tighter groove).

Yes... real time timestretching was something that I came up with by accident about five or so years ago... perhaps even longer... If you go to the lab and look at the first page you should be able to see that original thread. The timestretching is really cool as you can mod pitch, adjust length, add cuts and so on in real time. My evil idea come from this.. I am going to experiement with something. Also... missed zero crossings can be covered up by extending the decay setting in the ADSR a bit more so things sort of flow together... it all depends on what sound you like.

Unfortunately, there is no quick recycle method for the emu for cutting breaks up... You can however, if you have an ASCII keyboard hooked up crank out cuts quickly once you get the motion down. 30 minutes for a sixty plus piece break (16th note rez) for example... assuming you don't want super clean cuts.

Every one here is spot on though.

snh

Oh... and you might want to look at layering drums thread for some other information.

snh

i may be misunderstandign the post... if you want to do it directly inside the emu, then yeah its going to be time consuming and generally a headache! (and i really dont see the point in doing it that way unless you cant get a scsi connection and are using the sample in's to xmit all your samples.. however, with my old esi2000 i used recycle to send the sample splices to the sampler. recycle also automatically mapped each sample to the keys on the keyboard in order. if you have eos 4.0 or higher & a scsi connection you can have recycle automatically detect the sampler and send via scsi for the same effect. im upgrading the os in my e4x to do the same thing.

this link is useful.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/scsi_transfer ... ampler.htm

also, the following is taken from the recycle help file

"E-mu Sampler via SCSI
Note: Even though ReCycle supports all variations of the EOS 4.0 samplers, the program cannot automatically distinguish one model from another. Therefore, when ReCycle auto-detects an E-mu sampler running EOS 4.0, it will appear in the Sampler List as a generic "E-mu EOS Sampler". If you like, you can add the sampler manually, and specify the exact model.

Multiple instances of the same E-mu sampler model can cause ReCycle not to automatically "find" any of the samplers! The problem occurs if you have two or more instances of the same model connected via MIDI, and one of these is also connected via SCSI. If you have several samplers connected like this, add the samplers manually instead."

i have a major problem there.. Because my pc only got 2 pci slots.. and i use them for a RME digi9652 card and a Creamware Pulsar 2 card..

so i cant fit a pci scsi card.. even though i realy realy want to!!!

but the recycle is probably the way to go. i read somewhere that the newest recycle didnt have the correct support for emu? am i right?

thanks for tips anyway.

rgs
Egil

if you buy the recycle 2.1, you can buy a 2.0 disc from propellarheads, and you will be set up

Hmm.. i found that recycle price a bit high.. so i think i will pass. :(

250USD for a software that only chops up samples. yea.. its handy and cool.. but its too much in my eyes :)..

I will have to figure out another way to do it.. i guess chopping it up manualy in an audio editor can work.. then record it manualy sample by sample .

not much of a solution but its cheaper, (for those using scsi).. for 100USD less one could use chickensys translator to send bulk samples to the emu. lets you backup drives and everything as images on your pc. looks pretty useful! all you'd have to do is place the samples afterwards

i just remembered this, for those who arent using scsi. apparently, there is a way to assign a drumloop sample across 8 notes on the keyboard without having to chop it up at all. it uses the gain4x and key~ patchchords..
the original page is offline, but thats to google's cacheing i can presnt you this!:

"This chops up a single breakbeat accross 8 keys without you ever needing to cut up the sample!
Get a breakbeat sample (1 bar) and assign it to a preset.
Edit the voice and set non-transpose to on, and optionally set solo on.
Edit cords and set the first 5 Cords (00 to 04) to Gain4X > 'SStart +100%
Set Cord 05 to Key~ to Gain4X + ? (see below)
Now on your master keyboard hit D3 and adjust the Cord 05 amount until you find the first snare hit in the beat.
And thats it - you've now got a chopped breakeat mapped on keys C3 to G3 (including minors).
This works by using Key~ to adjust the sample start (with several Gain4xs to extend this). If you use key+ instead of key~ the range will be C-2 (lowest key) to G-3."

ive never tried it.. but maybe it could be useful for someone here...

source: Google's cache of http://www.basscadets.co.uk/emu/cords.htm as retrieved on 10 Mar 2007 08:21:54 GMT.

actually i stand corrected!
boom!
chickensys translator "emu edition"
79 USD
http://www.chickensys.com/products/tran ... on_emu.php
thats pretty sweet