Samplers on ACiD

Mattalik

Member

EMU Newbie Stuck.

Hi All,

Its my first post here, and i just want to say thanks to those who created this forum. There seems to be very little out there now that relates to hardware samplers.

Anyway,

I am a total beginner when it comes to hardware samplers, intact i am a total beginner when it comes to electronic music production, but i seem to be coming on well if i do say so myself.

I have logic Pro X, i have been using logic to chop breaks and used the software sampler (EXS24) to sequence them, which after a little practice is quite easy.

I did a lot of reading on the EMU E6400 sampler, and people worshipped it, so i purchased one. This is where making music went from a fairly enjoyable process to damn right impossible.

I have printed off the Manual (all 422 pages of it) and whilst i am picking up pieces from it, I am finding it very difficult to use.

I don't really understand how the operating system works, and the more i read it, the more my mind boggles.

I have a SCSI Zip Drive connected to it, and a USB zip Drive connected to the computer.

Can anybody give me a no-nonsense step by step tutorial on how this thing works and how to get my break spread across the keyboard so i can make some DnB?

I have done the youtube thing, and what i have found on there isn't very informative for the complete novice, there seems to be large chunks of info missing.

Thanks,

Matt.

pacific202

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:17:11)

pacific202

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:17:33)

monsterjazzlicks

Guest

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

Hi folks,

I would also like some help with all the above please! I have EMU ULTRA 4XT. The past year has been exclusively dedicated to mastering (well trying to!) the Yamaha DX7's FM Synthesis etc. But any BASIC/LAYMAN assistance here would be very much appreciated.  I read the 400 x page manual twice and spent about 3 x months dabbling on the EMU, but have only really used it in a LIVE GIG environment to play Brass Instruments (via a Midi keyboard).  And so no PROGRAMMING as such.

Best,

Paul

pacific202

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

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Last edited by pacific202 (2015-01-13 00:17:46)

mrscsi

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

Hi All,

I did a lot of reading on the EMU E6400 sampler, and people worshipped it, so i purchased one. This is where making music went from a fairly enjoyable process to damn right impossible.

Matt.

welcome to what it was like to make d+b back in the day. Thankfully for you the price of admission is just a fraction of what it used to be.   

I would recommend learning a page a day, think of EOS as a language, the true power of EOS comes when you are fluent in the language.  Since it is such a deep box you really get out of it what you put into it and how deep down the rabbit hole you go. 

back engineering patches is great advice once you have a firm handle on of the interface.

Mattalik

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

welcome to what it was like to make d+b back in the day. Thankfully for you the price of admission is just a fraction of what it used to be.   

I would recommend learning a page a day, think of EOS as a language, the true power of EOS comes when you are fluent in the language.  Since it is such a deep box you really get out of it what you put into it and how deep down the rabbit hole you go. 

back engineering patches is great advice once you have a firm handle on of the interface.

Thanks for the advice, but being a total new starter to hardware samplers, it seems (to me at least) that the way the manual is written, is that you have some kind of pre existing understanding of how samplers work.

What i am trying to do at the moment is understand how the thing does work.

For example, in logic i can import a 4 bar break, chop it into 1 bar segments (or individual hits if i desire) and then i can select the "convert to new sampler track" option and it will map those 4, 1 bar segments across the keyboard, and create a midi track for me to arrange as i see fit.

Now, I understand that i am working with a different beast here, but ultimately this is what i am try to achieve at the moment.

So, lets say i am working with individual hits from a break. I have chopped them, and each hit is saved as a wav file.

How do i get them mapped across the keyboard, and saved on the Emu internal Hard Drive for me to recall whenever i wish to use it?

Thanks,

Matt.

Mattalik

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

What i am trying to do at the moment is understand how the thing does work.

For example, in logic i can import a 4 bar break, chop it into 1 bar segments (or individual hits if i desire) and then i can select the "convert to new sampler track" option and it will map those 4, 1 bar segments across the keyboard, and create a midi track for me to arrange as i see fit.

Now, I understand that i am working with a different beast here, but ultimately this is what i am try to achieve at the moment.

So, lets say i am working with individual hits from a break. I have chopped them, and each hit is saved as a wav file.

How do i get them mapped across the keyboard, and saved on the Emu internal Hard Drive for me to recall whenever i wish to use it?

Thanks,

Matt.

BUMP.

alien_brain

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

daaang bro you got dropped like a hot potata

Mattalik

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

daaang bro you got dropped like a hot potata

Lol,  I'm sure somebody out there knows. 

As I understand it,  this was a common task for emu users back in the day.

I ain't giving up though.

philtipping

Administrator

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

First step is to get the wave files into the Emu.
Can either transfer digitally if you have a suitable mechanism (external zip, scsi link etc.), or use the analog inputs and record them. Both methods are described below. It's easy to get obsessed with digital to battle with Emu's proprietary file format but you can save a lot of hassle/money by sticking with the analogue inputs, which are perfectly adequate (imho!), albeit slower than working with a computer. If the waves are already chopped, you would record each one separately, or you could record the whole break pattern as one sample and chop it up using the Emu tools.

There are several ways of doing all this and it depends where you start so there may well be better or more efficient methods. Once you get your head around how samples & presets relate you can perfect your own way. Someone mentioned a beginner's guide, but until that appears here's my 2-cents fwiw (from memory):-

---- First a quick, simplistic overview:-

Sample memory (RAM) holds a mixture of objects - samples, presets, sequences etc. The contents of the RAM is called a Bank and can be saved in its entirety to disc (hard, ZIP or floppy). You can also save subsets but that's another topic.
Samples are the raw sounds and occupy most of the RAM.
Presets are containers/collections of samples so they don't need much RAM as they just contain pointers to the samples.
Presets also hold mapping info. i.e. which samples play when a MIDI note is received. Each sample reference includes a Low, Orig & High key value. If the incoming MIDI note matches the Orig key, the sample plays unchanged. If the note is within the range Low to Orig, the sample plays at a slower speed to lower its pitch. If the incoming note is within the range Orig to High, the sample plays at a faster speed to raise its pitch.
Presets also contain the dynamic settings for playing the samples, such as attack, decay, filter, patch cords etc.

You can record audio into RAM where each recording is called a sample and allocated a unique ident no. S001, S002 etc.
You can load or merge anything from disc/zip/floppy into RAM; Emu will sort out what's what. Sample & preset ident nos. are adjusted as necessary to avoid clashes.
You can save the whole RAM contents to disc/zip/floppy as a new Bank.

---- So, if you've already got the wave files on your hard disc or zip drive:-

Press Disc Browse to locate each one, highlight and press Load.
First time round you can start afresh by pressing Load again to destroy the current RAM contents. Use Merge on subsequent loads.
You can press Sample Manage to check the sample is loaded, e.g. S001 Bass.
Back to Disc Browse, highlight next wave file and press Load, Merge.
Check again if you like - should now have e.g. S002 Conga.
Repeat till all samples are loaded into sample memory (RAM).

Create a Preset (container) to manage the samples (samples can be played individually, but allocating them to a preset allows much more control):-
Press Preset Manage, New
Press Name and give the preset a title, e.g. P001 Test

Jump to the end section to map the samples manually.

---- If the files are not visible to the Emu via Disc Browse, record each sound separately:-

First create a Preset (container) to manage the samples:-
Press Preset Manage, New
Press Name and give the preset a title, e.g. P001 Test
The name is used as a default prefix for recorded sample names later so choose something useful.

Record each sample:-
Press Sample Manage, New
This section is really a separate topic as there are lots of settings such as length, threshold etc. so ask again if you're not sure.
Use the Dispose button if you mess up.  If you want to experiment, just press Force to start recording silence. You won't hear anything but it will still create a dummy sample which you can practice with.
When you think the sample is captured ok, you can either map it onto the keyboard now or carry on recording and map them all later.

To map it later:
Press Keep. The sample is now held in RAM and Emu returns to the recording screen.
Repeat for each sample.
Jump to the end section to map the samples manually.

To map it now:
Press Place. You need to change more settings here, but you only have to do it once as Emu remembers them for subsequent samples.

Truncate - 'both' will top & tail the recording; or you can do this manually later.
Normalise - maximises the volume for each sample; set to 'off' to retain the relative levels between samples.
Loop - 'Off' for drum hits.

Target - set to your new preset, e.g. P001 Test
Range, Low, Orig, High - not sure of the pros & cons for these so open to suggestions. 'Voices' weren't mentioned in the overview above so this may get too complicated, but here are a couple you could try:-
'1 KeyVoice' maps each sample to an individual key (set Low, Orig, High keys all to the reqd key), but creates a new voice for each one. This can be useful for editing the dynamics for individual drums later. The Low, Orig & High values automatically increment for each recording.
'auto*Multism' maps each sample to the Orig key. It only creates a single voice but it also allows keys above & below the orig key to play back the sample by shrinking/stretching it. This range shrinks as you place more samples. Again this may not be an issue, but you can also tweak the Low, Orig & High keys manually later to stop any other key from triggering your samples at different pitches.

Repeat for each sample.

---- Mapping samples manually:-
The above Place operation automatically added each sample (or a reference to it) along with its mapping details to the target preset.
If you used the Keep option or you loaded the samples from your disc into RAM, you need to do this manually:-

Press Preset Manage and ensure your target preset is shown.
Press Sample Manage.

Navigate to each sample in turn (e.g. S001) and press Place.
Don't alter the Group number (default is G1 - don't confuse this with the note 'G'!)
Change the other values as reqd. e.g. to map the sample to a single key, set the 3 values (Orig, Lo & Hi) to the same note, e.g. C1

Navigate to e.g. S002 and press Place. Change the 3 values to e.g. D1
Repeat as reqd.

---- Save everything (presets & samples):-
Exit to normal 'play' mode. i.e. if any of the 6 left-hand mode lights are on, press the corresponding button to exit.
Ensure reqd. preset is visible, then press Save.
Change folder & bank as reqd. then press Ok.

Ok, that's it. It was from memory so may have missed a few points but hope it's enough to get you started.
You can check/edit the mapping at a later date via Preset Edit, and also the dynamics. You can set the dynamics for all voices within the preset or each voice separately (if you use the above Range setting of 1KeyVoice, each drum hit will be on its own voice), but that's a topic for another day.
Don't get confused by the screen when you press Preset Edit - it will show the last state used. To get to the mapping screens: If you don't see a Voices (F5) option, press Exit, then press Voices. If you see a Voices option but it's not highlighted, press Voices. Once in the mapping screens, you may need to press Page Prev/Next to get to the Voices-Main screen for the Orig value, or the Vces-KvWin screen for the Low & High values.
Phil.

Last edited by philtipping (2015-01-14 15:49:15)

Mattalik

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

First step is to get the wave files into the Emu.
Can either transfer digitally if you have a suitable mechanism (external zip, scsi link etc.), or use the analog inputs and record them. Both methods are described below. It's easy to get obsessed with digital to battle with Emu's proprietary file format but you can save a lot of hassle/money by sticking with the analogue inputs, which are perfectly adequate (imho!), albeit slower than working with a computer. If the waves are already chopped, you would record each one separately, or you could record the whole break pattern as one sample and chop it up using the Emu tools.

There are several ways of doing all this and it depends where you start so there may well be better or more efficient methods. Once you get your head around how samples & presets relate you can perfect your own way. Someone mentioned a beginner's guide, but until that appears here's my 2-cents fwiw (from memory):- I

---- First a quick, simplistic overview:-

Sample memory (RAM) holds a mixture of objects - samples, presets, sequences etc. The contents of the RAM is called a Bank and can be saved in its entirety to disc (hard, ZIP or floppy). You can also save subsets but that's another topic.
Samples are the raw sounds and occupy most of the RAM.
Presets are containers/collections of samples so they don't need much RAM as they just contain pointers to the samples.
Presets also hold mapping info. i.e. which samples play when a MIDI note is received. Each sample reference includes a Low, Orig & High key value. If the incoming MIDI note matches the Orig key, the sample plays unchanged. If the note is within the range Low to Orig, the sample plays at a slower speed to lower its pitch. If the incoming note is within the range Orig to High, the sample plays at a faster speed to raise its pitch.
Presets also contain the dynamic settings for playing the samples, such as attack, decay, filter, patch cords etc.

You can record audio into RAM where each recording is called a sample and allocated a unique ident no. S001, S002 etc.
You can load or merge anything from disc/zip/floppy into RAM; Emu will sort out what's what. Sample & preset ident nos. are adjusted as necessary to avoid clashes.
You can save the whole RAM contents to disc/zip/floppy as a new Bank.

---- So, if you've already got the wave files on your hard disc or zip drive:-

Press Disc Browse to locate each one, highlight and press Load.
First time round you can start afresh by pressing Load again to destroy the current RAM contents. Use Merge on subsequent loads.
You can press Sample Manage to check the sample is loaded, e.g. S001 Bass.
Back to Disc Browse, highlight next wave file and press Load, Merge.
Check again if you like - should now have e.g. S002 Conga.
Repeat till all samples are loaded into sample memory (RAM).

Create a Preset (container) to manage the samples (samples can be played individually, but allocating them to a preset allows much more control):-
Press Preset Manage, New
Press Name and give the preset a title, e.g. P001 Test

Jump to the end section to map the samples manually.

---- If the files are not visible to the Emu via Disc Browse, record each sound separately:-

First create a Preset (container) to manage the samples:-
Press Preset Manage, New
Press Name and give the preset a title, e.g. P001 Test
The name is used as a default prefix for recorded sample names later so choose something useful.

Record each sample:-
Press Sample Manage, New
This section is really a separate topic as there are lots of settings such as length, threshold etc. so ask again if you're not sure.
Use the Dispose button if you mess up.  If you want to experiment, just press Force to start recording silence. You won't hear anything but it will still create a dummy sample which you can practice with.
When you think the sample is captured ok, you can either map it onto the keyboard now or carry on recording and map them all later.

To map it later:
Press Keep. The sample is now held in RAM and Emu returns to the recording screen.
Repeat for each sample.
Jump to the end section to map the samples manually.

To map it now:
Press Place. You need to change more settings here, but you only have to do it once as Emu remembers them for subsequent samples.

Truncate - 'both' will top & tail the recording; or you can do this manually later.
Normalise - maximises the volume for each sample; set to 'off' to retain the relative levels between samples.
Loop - 'Off' for drum hits.

Target - set to your new preset, e.g. P001 Test
Range, Low, Orig, High - not sure of the pros & cons for these so open to suggestions. 'Voices' weren't mentioned in the overview above so this may get too complicated, but here are a couple you could try:-
'1 KeyVoice' maps each sample to an individual key (set Low, Orig, High keys all to the reqd key), but creates a new voice for each one. This can be useful for editing the dynamics for individual drums later. The Low, Orig & High values automatically increment for each recording.
'auto*Multism' maps each sample to the Orig key. It only creates a single voice but it also allows keys above & below the orig key to play back the sample by shrinking/stretching it. This range shrinks as you place more samples. Again this may not be an issue, but you can also tweak the Low, Orig & High keys manually later to stop any other key from triggering your samples at different pitches.

Repeat for each sample.

---- Mapping samples manually:-
The above Place operation automatically added each sample (or a reference to it) along with its mapping details to the target preset.
If you used the Keep option or you loaded the samples from your disc into RAM, you need to do this manually:-

Press Preset Manage and ensure your target preset is shown.
Press Sample Manage.

Navigate to each sample in turn (e.g. S001) and press Place.
Don't alter the Group number (default is G1 - don't confuse this with the note 'G'!)
Change the other values as reqd. e.g. to map the sample to a single key, set the 3 values (Orig, Lo & Hi) to the same note, e.g. C1

Navigate to e.g. S002 and press Place. Change the 3 values to e.g. D1
Repeat as reqd.

---- Save everything (presets & samples):-
Exit to normal 'play' mode. i.e. if any of the 6 left-hand mode lights are on, press the corresponding button to exit.
Ensure reqd. preset is visible, then press Save.
Change folder & bank as reqd. then press Ok.

Ok, that's it. It was from memory so may have missed a few points but hope it's enough to get you started.
You can check/edit the mapping at a later date via Preset Edit, and also the dynamics. You can set the dynamics for all voices within the preset or each voice separately (if you use the above Range setting of 1KeyVoice, each drum hit will be on its own voice), but that's a topic for another day.
Don't get confused by the screen when you press Preset Edit - it will show the last state used. To get to the mapping screens: If you don't see a Voices (F5) option, press Exit, then press Voices. If you see a Voices option but it's not highlighted, press Voices. Once in the mapping screens, you may need to press Page Prev/Next to get to the Voices-Main screen for the Orig value, or the Vces-KvWin screen for the Low & High values.
Phil.

Wow, thanks!

this is exactly the detailed,  step by step kind of tutorial I have been looking for.  I know understand how the emu stores and organises samples etc.

3 or 4 months of pain,  torture and headaches solved in 20 minutes.

I am on my phone at the moment,  but I will write another piece asking more questions tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Matt.

philtipping

Administrator

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

No problems Matt. There's also a pdf doc which is mainly for sampling pitch-based sounds from other synths using a utility program, but the intro has some generic background info and tips re. Eos in the Ultra samplers, including screenshots. The utility just automates pressing keys on the synth so the Emu button presses are exactly the same with or without the utility.

Mattalik

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

I just downloaded the PDF file, I will have a read as I have never heard of sample aid before.

Thanks.

philtipping

Administrator

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

@alien, no problem. It's tricky writing a quick guide as Emu/Eos is so deep and people have different requirements, and if you add too much detail you end up back at 400 pages! There are more advanced users around but am happy to offer my subset of knowledge fwiw; I had to start somewhere so know what it's like. My broadband speed is too slow for Skype but other methods are ok; there's an email address at the bottom of the PhiLiZound web site, can progress to phone if reqd (subject to time zones!).
Yes, SampleAid is one of mine; it's a tool within Sequetron only because it shares some code for MIDI ports & timing, but it's effectively an independent utility.

bob0172

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

Although i have years of experience with akai samplers, i'm a newbie to EOS. What i found really useful in understanding the menu hierarchy is studying the menu maps (see manual page 394).
I printed those pages out, and hung it on the wall above the e4xt so i always have a sense of where i am in the menu. I still have to figure out a lot of stuff but i can at least, record samples, and play it in with midi from a preset:

Things i need to learn:
- How do i layer samples on one key
- How can i edit each voice with different filter settings etc within a preset? Now when i edit a voice in a preset, the whole preset is altered
- How do midi channels relate to presets?

bob0172

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

Awesome summary philtipping!

philtipping

Administrator

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

Thanks Bob, great idea with the menu maps. Here's my attempt at answering your questions - page nos. refer to EOS 4 manual. Ran out of steam at the end so if you want more info, just shout

1. Editing voices within a preset
Press Preset Edit
As mentioned above, if the bottom line does not show [Global] [Links] [Voices], press Exit.
Press [Voices] if not already highlighted.

When [Voices] is highlighted, the screen will be one of the voice mapping screens which show how the samples are grouped within voices (V1, V2, V3 etc), and various attributes. Page prev/next steps through these screens.

The trick is to watch the right-hand function [F6]. This changes to various [Edit ...] functions depending on the screen and/or which item is highlighted within the screen.

If any voice no. is highlighted, e.g. V1, the F6 button will be [Edit Voice], so pressing that should take you to the amplifier, filter etc. screens for editing that voice.
Try moving the cursor to other items on the screen and you'll see e.g. [Edit Group], [Edit Sample].

To edit all voices, press Global and you'll see a few global attributes for the whole preset, such as transpose & volume, but you'll also see F6 is now [Edit All]. Pressing this goes to amp & filter screens just like [Edit Voice], but this time they affect all voices.

This can be confusing but the top line shows which voices are 'selected'. It's a bit cryptic but try a few different options and you'll see how it works. As mentioned before, you can create some dummy samples by just Forcing & Placing, so you can assign these to different voices or groups as reqd.

2. MIDI channels & presets
Normally only one preset can be played at any one time (i.e. the one currently displayed), so to assign different presets to different channels, you need to switch to multimode.

You can do this either by setting the Midi mode to multimode in Master, Midi, Mode (page 103), or via the F6 [Mode] button in normal play mode, i.e. nothing lit up on the left-hand mode buttons... press Mode then Multi to switch on, or press Mode then Whole to switch off.  (Other modes allow 2 presets to be Split or Layered - see page 14 for details).

In multimode, the screen shows a list of MIDI channels and Preset nos. Move cursor over the preset entries and change as reqd. (page 106)

3. Layer samples on one key
This can be done in the Voice mapping screens. Previous post showed how incoming MIDI notes are mapped to samples using the orig note and high & low note ranges, so if you overlap these several samples can be triggered by the same keys. You can adjust these values for individual samples within a voice (i.e. the voice is a multisample), or adjust the values for the whole voice (this overrides individual values if present). See page 314.

Last edited by philtipping (2015-01-29 15:07:58)

bob0172

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

Now i got this down, there is very little i can't do.
Thanks!

Vibrodelic

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

I recently found and bought a like new  - my first - E4XT Ultra with the standard 128m 3G HD and EOS 4.02. as soon as I hooked it up to my daughters little casio piano with midi out & started playing the piano sample on it - my favorite was the octave piano for honky tonk licks. then I decided to change the setting on her piano and layer the 2 sounds through my stereo mixer. as soon as I changed the sound on her piano it sent some sort of midi signal to the E4XT and it quit working and the midi light quit flickering. I down loaded the regular E4XT pdf and started sorting things out midi wise. for 2 days now I cannot get it to track the casio keyboard anymore. the audition button works so I know the sound is there & have tried to change the midi back to normal every which way an cannot get the E4 to fire .. so what am I doing wrong ? I have done everything the manual says to do - what am I missing ?? signed; kornfused & frustrated. ps would like to get a copy of EOS 4.7 or 4.72 if and the pre load disk that is needed to ready the E4 ultra for loading up the 4.7? EOS - if someone could make me a copy - that would be 'really swell' or point me in the direction I can get both disks in the USA !!

cube48

Member

Re: EMU Newbie Stuck.

@Vibrodelic: It looks like your daughters Casio sent a Program Change MIDI message. In which mode are you playing your E4XT? Single, Omni or Poly?